DAVID WILCOCK

Start of interview

Kerry: We're here with David Wilcock, and we are every happy to be invited to his humble abode, which is not so humble (I won't say where), and David, welcome!

David: Well thank you, thank you Kerry! I have had the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time on many occasions, with some really amazing people - and I have had a lot of really interesting experiences of my own, going all the way back to very early in my life.

I read this book, actually, when I was seven years old. [holds up book] It's called, 'How To Make ESP Work For You' by Harold Sherman. This book talks about ESP as if it were something that most people don't understand and know about, and that surprised me; most kids in my grade were reading 'Clifford The Big Red Dog', and this book was obviously a lot more intense than anything most kids would read at my age. There were no pictures and it was kind of scary, you're looking at these little bitty words and trying to follow it. But I was just so fascinated as a child with the concepts that I just got into it.

The other thing I felt really drawn to at that age was books on Hypnosis, and I have read both of these books, [holds up books] beginning when I was seven years old, as well. I somehow felt that there was a connection between hypnosis and ESP, and didn't understand why I felt that way until much later.

The next book that I really read was Eric Iverson's 'Nostradamus Prophecies: 1995 and Beyond', and this is when I first got into the idea that there was going to be some kind of event around the year 2000, which Nostradamus scholars typically would say is a cataclysmic event, a nasty event.

I saw that special on HBO where the Russian nuclear missiles were going to blow up the US. They had Orson Welles narrating, and he goes into great detail on Nostradamus' prophecies.

Why would a seven-year old kid read books like this? Why would you be inspired to conduct such research at such a young age? I was unusually intelligent.

More importantly, when I was five years old I had an event, a pivotal event in my life, and that was an out of body experience. I woke up in the middle of the night, and was floating over my own body in bed. I looked down and saw myself breathing, so it was clear that I was still alive; but I couldn't make sense of why I was in two places at the same time, and why I still had these funny yellow pyjamas with the red cuffs!

Well, the event had such an impact on me that I saved the pyjamas [holds up pyjamas]. They became sacred pyjamas that I never washed again, never wore again. These pyjamas were in two places at once, and I didn't understand how that could be, so they became very sacred to me.

I wake up the next morning very excited! I tell my father and he says, "You just had a dream". I went to school and told the kindergarten teacher Mrs DiMaze, and she said "You just had a dream".

Bear in mind, I was a typical silly kid. Mrs DiMaze told my friend Chris and myself to go trim the Christmas tree, and so we proceeded to take our little scissors, and started cutting branches off the tree!

So you know, I did kid things. I had rocks in my pocket, and paper clips and gumballs, but at the same time, once this out-of-body thing happened and I saved the pyjamas, I said, "I've got to get another chance", because if I had not been afraid, I wouldn't have stayed in the house, and probably would have gone somewhere really fascinating!

And I had so many UFO dreams, where in some cases I would end up talking to someone who looked like - after I saw the movie 'Star Wars', it became Obi-Wan Kenobi. He said that something really amazing was going to happen in the future on earth, and that I had some kind of role in it, and that I would be guided.

Most of the conversations I couldn't remember when I woke up; but I would be so overwhelmed with the emotion of the loss of this contact with him, that I would wake up and be just devastated by the fact that I had lost that connection.

Kerry: If we fast-forward from that - which is a wonderful introduction to who you are today - you at some point became aware that you could be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce.

David: Right, I did read the ESP book, and (the author) said the younger you are when you start doing these exercises, the more psychic you will be! I'm like, "I'm already like seven years old, sheesh! I'm never going to be any good now! I should have been doing this stuff since I was two!"

I read this book [holds up book] by Stephen La Berge, 'Lucid Dreaming', and then explored the world of lucid dreaming in high school, and was able to have lucid dreams based on the techniques in this book. I would end up on the main deck of UFOs and talking to beings, and La Berge's perspective is that this is just your mind, there's nothing real about any of this stuff, and I would just wake up and laugh, like, "whew, none of this means anything"!

In college, I quit using alcohol and all intoxicating chemicals. I did smoke some marijuana, but quit that in my sophomore year. Six months later a friend comes into my room, he had traveled a long distance to see me, and he was white as a sheet of paper, and said, "I have got to tell somebody what just happened! I've just had a conversation with my physics professor, and he said that UFOs are real!"

"Give me a break, man, come on!"

But I was curious enough that I had him keep talking, and he said basically that the physics professor mentioned off-handedly that UFOs are real.

He was the star pupil, so after class he talked to the professor. The professor said, "We know this is true," we, meaning NASA. He had worked in the higher echelons of NASA for eleven years. "We know this is true, but we are never going to let it go out on the main headline of the New York Times, and the reason why is that we shock-tested the public with 'War of the Worlds', and found that they really can't handle the truth, because they're going to think that they're being invaded. They will panic, and the economy will go belly up, so we just can't let this out."

So there is a gradual indoctrination going on, getting people into this information.

He said that the ship had a panel all the way around the bottom, and they pulled it off expecting to see components inside. Instead, all they saw was this ceramic; so for a couple of years they didn't know what they were looking at.

Finally they looked at the ceramic under high magnification, and saw these lines on it. It turns out that this was a gigantic computer chip that ran the whole width of the ship, and it was a superconducting ceramic material, which means that electrons would flow through it without any loss.

Now from this, the professor said, we got fiber optics. (they found the burned edges of fiber optic cables in the ships) We got Teflon, the non-stick material - a special material. We got Kevlar bullet-proof vests that came from reverse engineering. Laser beams passed between two mirrors, one of which is semi-permeable, the beam comes out. Lasers came from the ships. LED lights came from the ships. Infrared night vision came from the ships (they had looked through the port-hole windows and saw this green, so that you could see outside at night), and computer chips, obviously.

So what this really means is that most of the technology that we now have, including the technology that you are recording my voice and filming with, would not exist if it were not for this 'celestial inheritance' that we got in the 40's.

Well, that just screwed my head right off. And for two weeks, I'd be walking down the street, see a manhole cover and think of UFOs. I would go to the cafeteria and have a plate on my (table), and I would be eating off this plate and be thinking of UFOs! I just couldn't get it out of my mind.

After two weeks time I said that if this is real and I believed it was - because he went into propulsion systems, how they get to light speed. He went into the three different types of occupants they found in the ships - if this is real, it is the most important thing there could possibly be to study. I finished college; I got my bachelors degree in psychology, and I got a PhD in UFOs!

This was the Director of Communications from the Apollo missions [holds up book entitled, 'Our Ancestors Came From Outer Space - A NASA Expert Confirms Mankind's Extraterrestrial Origins', by Maurice Chatelain]

This guy is the real deal, high end NASA scientist, who came forward in 1995 to say they had discovered ruins on the moon, architecture on the moon.

Well, this book went into so much detail about ancient civilizations, and obviously showed that some sort of intelligence interfaced with ancient civilizations to get us to where we are now, and to create these artifacts that we find all around the world.

I became quite compelled with the evidence he presented, showing me that there had to be a civilization that was highly advanced before our current one. You think of BC and you think of cave men, right? Well, BC is only a hundred generations ago, and that's not a whole lot of time, really. So, basically speaking, we have a much older history. So, all this stuff is coming into my mind.

I started to write my dreams down when I got sober, and that was part of my recovery process.

Dreaming is a very important part of the lucid dreaming process, because you have to capture a dream when it comes in, and then meditate on it and visualize yourself becoming lucid, meaning that you say, "Oh my God, I'm in a dream! I can levitate things; I can fly, I can snap my fingers and go to a whole different place! I can create people to talk to! I can create objects!"

I have had a number of these, and they are absolutely fantastic! But you have to remember these dreams, and then repeat this line to yourself, "The next time I'm dreaming, I want to remember to recognize that I'm dreaming." That's the key line: next time I'm dreaming, I want to remember to recognize that I'm dreaming.

So I already had a lot of experience remembering dreams. So I start remembering dreams, and I start getting all this information coming in from books. I read five hundred books in three years - I had a list of all of them - and I submitted my application to the Roper Institute, which is a graduate school in Boulder, Colorado in trans-personal psychology, which is metaphysical psychology.

I handed them this list; and I said, "Name any book, and I'll give you a discourse on it."

I didn't get accepted, probably because my financial situation wasn't very good. I came back from Boulder, and now we're into 1996. I had been doing this research for three years and I was like, "Why am I so compelled? Why can't I stop reading these books? I'm just so obsessed - there's got to be something more to this!"

I start having dreams, in which UFOs fly overhead, and something shoots out of the UFO, and it comes spinning down, and lands on the ground - and it's a telephone, and it starts ringing!

Oh shit, wow!

I had this other dream where this ET walked up to me, and all these books start flying out from behind him like a cyclone, and they're hitting me, and it hurts!

But as each book is flying past me, all these books that I've read, it's like all the knowledge in the books comes into my mind at once - and I start seeing how it all fits together in this dream. It's like this incredible telepathic, overwhelming blast!

I woke up, and I'm like, "What is this, what does this mean?"

It's almost like they are saying - you know, because if you are watching these videos and you are into the UFO subject, you kind of say to yourself, "It's all out there, right? It's something I'm reading about." This is like it comes into your mind and it's personal, it's part of you now. "What? They want to talk to me? They want to have a conversation?" (They, meaning whoever they are)

What finally happened was, I had a dream that said, "Okay, here's what's going to happen: "You will be able to hear"… it was this ghost that was talking to me in this dream, and he said, "You'll be able to hear me but nobody else can. I will tell you what to say, and you just dictate it into a tape recorder."

So here I am, I've read 500 books - I get on the internet - and by this point I had come across material called 'ascension', or some people were calling it 'pole shift'. I had read the Nostradamus stuff, so I said, "Well, what's really going on here?"

Now up until this point, I had read almost entirely empirical science-oriented books about ufology, about metaphysics, about Atlantis; however, at this point I started to get more into the possibility that somebody could possibly intuitively communicate with these guys.

I found a book by Dr. Norma Milanovich, 'We The Arcturians,' and I wasn't 100% convinced, but I was relatively compelled by it.

Then, I found a book by Dr. Scott Mandelker, called 'From Elsewhere'. I don't have it in front of me here, but this book says on the cover, "The Subculture Of Those Who Claim To Be of Non-Earthly Origins". I looked at it in the store and thought, "Wow, this guy is really far out!"

But I held the books between my hands, which I do, psychometry. It was tingling so incredibly! It was electrical, wow! And so I opened the book to the back, and it said, "If you can answer these twelve questions in the affirmative and about yourself, then you very likely are an extraterrestrial soul in a human body who has forgotten who you really are."

And this is really far out - way, way fringe stuff! But by this point, I had read 500 books on the fringe.

So okay, I start reading these questions, and it's like the most personal, insightful, almost invasive psychological description of who I really was, underneath the mask, that I've ever seen, and I couldn't believe it! He doesn't even know me, and yet he knows me better than anybody, even my parents - how did that happen?

He says that this has to do with being an extra-terrestrial soul in a human body. So I read, just devoured this book. This was in November of 1995, after I had graduated College in '95, I go to my friend Jude's house.

Jude and I did music together a lot, because I am also a drummer and a composer. Jude and I did automatic writing together, on his suggestion, where you hold the pencil in your left hand and let it do what it wants to do, and I didn't think it was going to work, I though it was kind of hokey.

But we really meditated; and I felt this conscious connection to my third eye, trying to pull in energy from there, and the question we asked is, "Am I a wanderer?" This is what they call these extra-terrestrial souls. "Am I a wanderer?"

I start feeling something coming in really strong, and I pull here [points at forehead] really strong, and for all of two or three seconds, my left hand jumped into activity, and did all this stuff. I dropped the pen, and said, "Oh My God, Jude, turn on the light, something happened, this is crazy!"

So we turn on the lights and the paper looked completely white. What the hell?

Then we looked really very close, and it was very, very faint pencil, and it says - my hand had written forward and backward on the same line, and there were curves that intersected; and only because they collided with each other did it say, "Christ Cometh."

Now, I was not raised to be Christian, I went to the Presbyterian Church maybe four times in my life. My mother had a bible upbringing and she really rebelled against it and got away from it. 'Christ Cometh' - the 'th' of 'cometh' looked like the word' Ra'. Well, that's the Egyptian god; what's that all about?

Well, in the book that I had been reading by Scott Mandelker, the entity that he based all this stuff on was called Ra. There was a series of four books originally, then five, called the 'Law of One'.

There was more than that, there was an encoded message - it said "EC 40-57 and Oxen". The 'and' was a little ampersand ('&') symbol. The oxen I understood, as I had worked at a little fair over the summer, and I had bought a statue of an Ox which I thought represented my becoming a beast of burden in the working world.

The woman (from whom I bought the statue) was from Kenya, and I said, "What does this animal mean?"

"Oh you American, always think symbol, something means something."

"Well, this is an Ox, right, and you hitch it up to a plough, and it ploughs a field for you."

"Oh no, this is water buffalo! Very dangerous! Get within 500 feet of this and you pray for death!" That surprised me.

Okay, that means that somehow, all this stuff I'm going through is going to help me be really strong, and going into the working world doesn't mean I'm going to be submerged. I got out of college, I had my bills paid, I had all the books I can read, and then I had to support myself with minimal wage jobs. I did not want to be doing that, so I felt like I was going to be this beast of burden. Instead, the water buffalo is a powerful symbol.

So here I am months later - at this point I had gotten fired from the mental ward for being too friendly to the patients, and there's this EC 40-57 at the beginning.

Well, Jude said, "Well, isn't that like the bible, like Ecclesiastes? It says, "Christ", right?"

So we found the bible, but there was no verse 40, but then we remembered - or Jude remembered - the whole chapter verse thing only happened later. Originally, you measured it by the number of verses from the beginning, so we counted 40 verses from the beginning. I had just gotten fired from the mental ward, right, and that it is why I was upstate, where my family was.

Well, the first line said, "for what hath a man toiled and labored under the sun; this too is meaningless." Then the very last line, line 57 said, "To eat, drink and be happy in one's toil, this is the grace of God." It was like somebody was up there with the bible, saying, "let's give him this." And then my hand does this thing, and it says, "Christ Cometh."

And then it gives me a bible quote, and mentions the Ox, and about my work. And then the bible quote is about work, and in the middle was that famous line, which was turned into the song, 'Turn, Turn, Turn,' by the Byrds. To everything there is a purpose, to everything there is a season, and time for every purpose under heaven, time to be born, time to die, time to gather stones together, all those things; all those opposites.

I was at a real turning point in my life, so I felt, "Okay, this is really powerful, crazy, but what do I do with it?" After that life just kind of returned to normal.

So, a few months later, I get this bill from my ex-girlfriend, I had a Japanese girlfriend in college. We had a big, long argument on the phone, and I got a phone bill for two hundred dollars, or something. I couldn't pay it, and I freaked out because this was going to make me broke.

I was working for $5.77 an hour, taking care of developmentally disabled people in a residence facility - and I started screaming and crying, "If you are out there, I want the fucking proof!" Sorry, just bleep that, or something! [laughs] People have told me I shouldn't swear. "So if you are out there, I want the proof and I want it right now!"

So, I'm looking out the window, and seeing if there're going to be UFOs at the window - and nothing happened. I'm trying to levitate this napkin on my plate - and it didn't levitate.

My friend ended up calling, and he was going through A-A and rehabilitation, and I realized I was a heck of a lot better off than he is right now.

By the end of the night, I had forgotten about it. The next morning - my buddy had a house-mate who delivered pizza. He didn't even get home until after I went to bed that night. So he slept in until about 10 or 11 in the morning, and we had a rule - don't call us in the morning, period!

So this one morning, the next morning after this happened, I get this little itch to go outside and start the car so that I can warm it up, because it is winter time and really freezing outside. I go out and start up my Subaru, and come inside, and there's Eric, with pillow creases on his face, and he's on the phone! Why is he on the phone? He hangs up the phone and says, "dude, I had a really strange dream about you!"

And I'm like, "I can't listen to your dream! I've gotta go to work! I'm late!"

"Yeah, but this had UFOs! All these UFOs were in it, man!"

Okay, I'm listening.

I'm listening, so he starts going into this dream in which this whole fleet of UFO's flies over our head. People start panicking and running into things, and they're all hiding under things.

It was like a big mall, but there was no ceiling on the mall. Everybody evacuates, except for my ex-girlfriend. He (Eric) didn't even know that I had this event happen, regarding her, and him and me.

One UFO stayed, and this pillar of light comes down, and there's a flat disc on the bottom. There's a man standing on the disc, wearing a white robe and sandals, but it clearly wasn't Jesus, because he had gray hair and a gray beard; he was like a wise old man-archetype.

He starts doing this discourse, and he says, "We are your brothers, your long lost family. You came from us, we came from you; we came from the One - we are all connected. We are here now at this time, because you are about to go through this amazing, fantastic, energetic enlightenment of your entire planet. Right now you are only seeing the bad part, where you have the earth changes, and you have the upheavals in your government, and you are starting to see the rottenness in your society - but what comes after this is a golden age, far more incredible than you can ever imagine, and we are here to help you through this transition."

So he eventually stopped; he gave this whole Ascension discourse! He's just standing there, and the girl says to Eric, "Shouldn't somebody go talk to him?"

And Eric says, "Well, I'll leave that to Dave, he's the UFO guy, he'll know what to say."

Apparently they prodded me along, this is his dream. I walk up to the guy, and he recognizes me, and we say some strange word to each other that wasn't in English. Then we hug each other, and he has his arm around me, and he looks at Eric very serious, now, and he says, "It is very important that you know he is one of us."

So Eric tells me all this, right? I didn't even have time to think about it. That's the whole dream - great, gotta go.

I'm driving to work, and I'm passing people, and I get to work, and it's a terrible day! Then I got out from work, and I was going to visit my mother.

The next thing you know, I'm on the New York State Thru-way, driving north up to Albany. It's pouring rain and my windshield is fogging over. I can't see anything, it's very deadly, and I might not even make it alive! I'm hydroplaning as I'm driving.

All of a sudden, in this condition, where I'm almost in tears already from that terrible day, I realize, "Wait a minute, I asked a question the night before in prayer basically, and I got the answer and the answer is yes, you are one of us!"

I pulled the car over to the side of the road and I just lost it. [emotional] I knew in that moment that there was something that I was here to do.

You know, when you really bring yourself back to that point when you first heard it, it's still just as potent as when it happened [tearful, wiping eyes].

So, my experience after that was, "okay, what's next? What's going to happen now?" That's when I started to get these dreams saying, "We want to communicate with you".

A year after I first had the automatic writing, I had joined Richard Hoagland's discussion group online, and met a guy met named Joe Mason who had created a website soon afterwards called 'greatdreams.com'.

He talked about something called the dream voice. He said, "When you wake up in the morning and remember your dreams, listen to the background noise in your mind, and just write it down; no matter how cryptic, or how nonsensical it sounds. Don't analyze it, that's the most important part; do not try to understand it. Do not pay attention to it - just let it flow through you, and write it all down."

Well, I was up so late, and he was telling me all this great information and I am falling a sleep while trying to write it. I wake up in the morning, and I can still hear his voice, so I just start writing it down. I get all the way done, and I have eight pages of material!

It was weird - it almost sounded like schizophrenic ranting, but it said some very interesting things!

One of the things it said was, "you should visit Chitzen Itza, the Mayan pyramids. You can go there with your mind." Well, that's astral projection! That's something I had been wanting to do all these years. I had never been able to walk out of my body from a conscious state, and I really wanted to be able to do that.

So I'm reading this for a second time, really understanding it - and the phone starts ringing. It felt like there was this tugging energy on me from the phone!

"Hello?"

"Hey Dave, this is your buddy from the Pinebush UFO group. Do you want to come to a seminar on Astral Projection?"

I just, agggh! I mean - I know that it's not likely that anybody is really going to want to believe it, but this is what really happened!

I tried to get to the seminar, but got lost on the highway. I never made it - I ended up having to come home.

So, there were a lot of really synchronistic events happening. I started to get these readings, and on the first day it also said, "One of our women, Teresa - a sibling, inoperative; the Christian, psychically."

"One of our women," Teresa, Mother Teresa, a sibling, sibling mother, "One of our women, Teresa - a sibling; inoperative" - something went wrong, something with her health maybe. "The Christian" mother Teresa, the Christian, "One of our women, Teresa a sibling; inoperative, the Christian, psychically."

Five days later, mother Teresa had a massive heart attack.

So then a little while later (and this is one the stories I tell in the book which we will get to in a second), I did a reading for my housemate Eric, and it said to him, "You would be happy to know that your student loans for New Paltz have come in."

This is the college we were going to - State University of New York, at New Paltz. But it didn't make any sense; he had graduated from New Paltz already!

So I actually asked for it to be re-phrased, and it said, "You will be happy to know your student loans have come in - you should visit New Paltz."

So, I told Eric all about this. He was now a graduate student at [inaudible] Albany.

Well about a month and a half later, he walks into the house and says, "Dude, you'd better sit down for this one!"

"What's going on, man?"

He says, "New Paltz called my mother! They were cleaning out the bursar's office (the financial office), and there was a file cabinet up against the wall (it was one of the last things they had to remove), they pulled the file cabinet away from the wall, and there was an envelope behind the file cabinet! Inside the envelope there was a check made out to me, Eric, for nine hundred dollars!" An uncashed, Stafford loan - and we needed about eight hundred and seventy-nine dollars to be able to pay our rent, so this was just…wow!!

Then you start going through these loops in you mind - how could this have possibly been done?

What started to happen was that I would have a stack of cassette tapes, and I would get about a month behind a lot of times on my transcriptions of this. I would dictate my dreams, and I would dictate whatever words I heard.

The words were basically like a wisdom teaching talking to me and talking about spiritual principles - spiritual growth, talking about this ascension, saying there is this amazing thing that is going to come in your future. The whole planet is going to be going through this shift into a golden age.

But I would get behind, and I'd have these stacks of tapes, and I would sit down a month after I had dictated it, and start transcribing - and it would describe what I was doing right before I sat down at the computer, over and over and over again.

You may remember that back in the 90's, there was a toy called a Tamaguchi, a little orange plastic thing, and teenage girls would have them on their belts. It was like a little chicken, and you would feed the chicken by hitting the buttons.

So I had just gotten back from the convenience store, where I saw a little girl with one of these on her belt, playing with it. I get home, pop in the tape and start transcribing it - and in the dream I am saying " I'm seeing a little girl with some strange orange toy on her belt."

A couple of years later, another really dramatic story was; I had a girlfriend at the time - Sabrina, as I call her on the website. She came into the house while I was transcribing, and she says, "I've got this really great story! You're going to love this, stop the tape. I just met this guy at the 'ARE', the Edgar Cayce Institute…"

I was now living in Virginia Beach, because the Cayce readings had said it was a safety land, and I felt that was a trustworthy thing, safe from earth changes or whatever.

So she says, "Yeah, this guy just stopped in for one day. He was an old friend of mine, and he was telling me about this building where the top floor was built to look like a UFO, with little porthole windows to look out, it was really neat!"

So I say, "That's cool."

So then I go back and hit play - and I'm transcribing, "I'm seeing a building with a top floor looking like a UFO."

So I said, "Come over here! Hit play!" I took the headphones off, and we're just looking at each other. The hairs are standing upright - Oh my God!

Long, long story short, I'm getting all these synchronicities all the time. This is world-class data - but do you think I want to go public about being an extraterrestrial communicator, heck, no! I'm working for $5.77 an hour in a developmental disability facility. The last thing I want to do is end up in the mental ward again, but as a patient, and not as an employee!

So I'm living this double life. By day I'm working, and by night I come home, and I'm transcribing tapes. These readings are coming through and they are beautiful, amazing discourses on spiritual growth, enlightenment, consciousness, ascension, whew!

I finally had an out of body experience. One of the things you go out of body, if you're a guy, at least - it's your desire body, it's your subconscious - you want to have sex.

So, I tried to conjure up a partner. I would be standing there with my pants down, and there would be all these people standing around pointing at me, laughing. And it was like, "If I'm going to get humiliated this much, maybe sex isn't such a good idea in the out of body plane!"

But then it seemed like I found this one woman, and things started to go pretty well. She took me back to her room, and I thought, "Now we're getting somewhere!"

But then she had a roommate in the room - this guy, and the room is a mess.

So I start trying to convince them, "Hey look! I'm out of body; none of this is real! Watch this!" I took my hand and shook it, and turned it into a bowling ball and detached it, and rolled it down the hallway. When I would do that, they would disassociate and wouldn't look at me, and when I tried to tell them I was out of body they would lose track of my talking.

So, finally I said, "Isn't there somebody who knows what the hell is going on around here?"

I turn around, and there is this woman, and she's just looking at me with an incredibly serene face. She's got gray hair and a purple dress, and she's standing there and she is not saying anything. I realize that I'm paralyzed - I can't move.

She's standing there, and I'm looking at her saying, "Okay, what's going on?" I can't move, and I keep waiting for something to happen. I'm getting really freaked out because I'm paralyzed, and she goes, "You know you have to move, don't you?"

"Well, I know you said something about Virginia Beach..."

As soon as I said 'Virginia Beach', I was free.

Then this other woman comes out, and I go down a hallway and there are all these doors. A door opens, and this woman comes out, and she says, "You are from Bloomington; that means you're blooming, doesn't it?" I lived in a town called Bloomington.

Okay, all right, I guess I have to move to Virginia Beach. It wasn't easy; I had seven hundred dollars. I threw all my stuff in the car, drove down there, got a list from the ARE, the 'Association for Research and Enlightenment', the Cayce organization, and this guy who I connected with - Francis Ford, the art director of 'Venture Inward" magazine, an Edgar Cayce magazine, and he says, "I have got to meet you as soon as you get here."

I had told him I was doing these readings and stuff. He walks up to the door (I ended up renting a room from his friend who lived in the condo across the way from his), and he opens up the door and looks at me and goes, "My God, it is unbelievable!"

"It? Me? What are you talking about?"

He says, "You look exactly like Edgar Cayce, exactly!"

Oh, man.

I had already had this experience before I left from New York, in which there happened to be the only Northeast area study group, which was a just a few miles away from my house.

This guy Skip Weatherford was running it, and secretly - we were having these group meetings in public. He did not want me to tell them, but on the side we were doing these hypnosis sessions where he would hypnotize me. I would end up channeling, and I was reading his mind. I would answer questions that he would ask, before he had even asked them out loud!

At one point, he said, "It is so strange that you can do this."

Apparently, in the channeling state I opened up my eyes and I looked at him, and I said, "It is by nature of the continuity of consciousness that I can do this."

It freaked him out, because my eyes were black - it didn't look right, but that was also strange, because I had these two crystals under my hands when I did the readings. I put my hands on the crystals, and exactly as I did, this bolt of energy comes out of the wall, from a wire about this long. (holds his fingers about 9" apart)

Later he told me that as soon as I left for the day, all the power in the house went off for exactly one hour! So, strange things like that were going on like that.

Then one day, he says, "You've got to come over to my house right now, right now! No, I'm serious, right now!"

"Okay, fine." So, I go over there, and he has this magazine - and there is this cut out in the middle of the magazine with a picture in it, and the picture is of a face, and the face looks exactly like my face. He throws it down on the desk and says, "Who is that?"

I think, "Well, okay, I've never been published. I've never been printed, and clearly it is my face. Well all right, it's got to be that ARE magazine, because it has that pencil style they use on the cover.

"Edgar Cayce"

"Yeah, but who else does it look like?"

I'm just like, "I do not want to be Edgar Cayce!" [laughs]

But then, I get this out-of-body thing, "you know you have to move, don't you?" and, "you're from Bloomington, that means your blooming, aren't you?" and all this stuff happens.

So I go to Virginia Beach, and the next thing you know, Francis is saying, "I have to get you a meeting with Robert Smith, the director of the 'Venture Inward' magazine." So we go to this Nawhab [sic]Indian restaurant, which is down in Virginia Beach, a few streets back from the oceanfront - I forget what the street is.

Anyway, apparently I was sitting in the restaurant, I turned and looked at him like this (there is a picture of Edgar Cayce working at his desk, turning and smiling), so he walks into the restaurant, and I look at him like this, and it's the spitting image of the photograph!

He says to me - he eventually confessed that he was trying to stay cool. He said, "When I saw your face, I almost fell over backward! You are exactly the same as Edgar Cayce, in the way you look!

Long story short, I ended up meeting everybody in the ARE. I'm living with a guy who is a Cayce scholar, and he starts telling me all this stuff about Cayce, because I hadn't really read that much about Cayce. I had read about the Atlantis stuff, which I found fascinating - but other than that, I knew he was psychic and felt his work could be trusted.

But I hadn't really got into it because there are five or six hundred Cayce books - but here's this guy I'm living with as a result of the ARE contact who had been best friends with Gladys Davis, who was apparently Cayce's soul-mate and secretary.

I heard all the inside stories that you don't usually here, including the fact that he stepped on a stick and it went through his testicles, and one of his testicles was dead. I heard all these stories about Atlantis, about how all these people are reincarnations of each other, and they kept re-incarnating in groups together. He kept saying I was probably Edgar Cayce reincarnated.

And then we actually had Tom Johnson, the owner of the 'Heritage' store - which sells Cayce products - come into the house one night. "My God, he looks just like Edgar Cayce!"

Here we go again.

Finally my contact Jim - the guy I'm living with - says, "You've got to ask; you have got to ask your readings! You cannot let this go on for much longer."

By this point I knew I could trust him, and asked in a very strange way, because when you're in trance you are trying to get your mind conscious enough that you can actually ask a question, then you have to sink back down to the answer.

So I said, "I would like to incubate a question on my identity here, related to Edgar Cayce." I just couldn't say, "Was I Edgar Cayce in a past life?"

Well, the answer comes back and says, "Table rock." I don't know why they said that and I still don't know. "This is our boss - in short, the answer is yes."

Then they pulled out the cheesy Spiderman line: "But with the answer comes great responsibility."

Oh my God, I was pissed.

After I had this reading, I did not want this to be the truth.

Later on, I said, "What the hell, let me pick up Edgar Cayce's astrological chart, natal chart, and compare it to my own chart - it's called a bi-wheel. Well, I did that, and we've got moon over moon, Mars over Mars, Mercury over Mercury, Venus over Venus, sun over sun, and then Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus and Neptune are all in these perfect aspect ratios to each other: 30 degrees, 60 degrees, 90 degrees. It was so locked in and precise.

We eventually had somebody do a astrological comparison, and found out that in the 127 year period after Cayce's birth, there is only one time that you could be possibly be born where it would align that well with his birth chart - and that was my birthday; the exact day, time and location.

Furthermore, it was also in the Chinese Zodiac, the year of the Ox. "The Ox! Oh my God, there it is again!"
So when I saw the natal chart, I literally ran into the bathroom; and I'm hovering over the toilet ready to throw up, because…what do we know about Edgar Cayce? Cayce had a reading that said that in 1998, Ra-Ta the priest will return.

This meant Cayce's past life in Atlantis - apparently, he was this guy who helped design the Great Pyramid, he was one of the chief architects of the Great Pyramid. Ra-Ta was a prophet who foretold the destruction of Atlantis, fled the island, got into Egypt, and then built this monument based on the technology they had and all this stuff, creating a gateway with this higher entity that was called Ra.

Now, this is not really in the Cayce readings anywhere, except in a few places where they mention Ra and Ra-Ta as two separate entities in some prayers, which we have in the book.

So then, the source tells me, "You have to go to the ARE, and tell them about this."

"Oh my God, no way!" I finally got dragged kicking and screaming into doing it.

I had a meeting with somebody and told him the whole story, and he says, "We get somebody in here every week who thinks they are the re-incarnation of Edgar Cayce; everyone's hip to this 1998 thing where he is going to come back. You're just another number - get outa' here, kid!" But he also invited me to sell candy bars at a play they were running, 'The Man of La Mancha'.

"Well, let's just get you out in the community and see if anybody else recognizes you."

So it's a really funny story, an anecdote - to say that Edgar Cayce returned to the ARE and they gave him a job selling candy bars!

Kerry: Impersonating Edgar Cayce.

David: Yeah! So the last thing in the world I wanted is to be was somebody else, how many Elvis impersonators can you mention by name? It's not like this is an honorable thing for me. The ARE did not take me seriously - in fact, this person was very belittling to me.

I found out through the grapevine that the buzz inside ARE was like, "We know this guy did drugs, we know this guy swears, he's young and impressionable. There is no use that we can have of him being Edgar Cayce re-incarnated. It doesn't do us any good."

I was only like twenty-four years old. I was young, yet I had read 500 books and I had started to write about this stuff, so in that bitterness of the betrayal from the ARE, I just got more into working with my source. My source is saying, "You have to start doing readings and taking clients and doing readings for other people. If you don't do this, you are going to lose the ability to channel."

Well I really didn't want to do that. But by July of 1998 I was in Virginia Beach. Cayce had a dream where he was back in Virginia Beach in 1998, and the prophecy had been fulfilled. I'm thinking, "Well, this is wonderful," and I end up starting to take clients.

The second - no third client I had, this woman comes in - didn't say anything about herself whatsoever, just sat down and wanted to start the reading. I really don't want to do that, but okay. I wake up out of the reading, and she is totally in tears.

She said, "Your reading described exactly what is going on with my husband, the fact that we're living at opposite ends of the house, why we are fighting what I am going to have to do to make it better. I am just so blown away I can't thank you enough."

So you know, you get this stage fright, but then once it has started it just happens and it flows through you.

So then the source is saying, "The other part of the deal is that not only do you have to do readings for people, but you also have to write a book."

I didn't want to write a book either. I finally got a website in February 1999. I had written up some of my preliminary research into Ascension in 1998.

I got on line February 1999, and in a relatively short time laid out the case, including the photographic comparison of myself to Edgar Cayce. I started to get some interest on the internet, but I really didn't want to write a book and I didn't want to be known for that.

I got hired on in 2000 to this thing called 'The Time Of Global Shift', which was a seminar tour about ascension. I was presenting scientific information about 2012 and planetary change. I started to have conferences, and I got on Art Bell as I said. It was a short visit, then I had another visit again.

Long story short, along comes May 2001, Dr Steven Greer's 'Disclosure Project.' I had been on Art Bell now. I was doing these readings, and I had a website. I was making all my money from taking clients - barely surviving, because I charged very little at the time.

I'm now not doing readings anymore; that is an important thing to point out because I have demand inundation, which some people would call a happy problem. It got to the point that so many people wanted readings I just could not possibly fill the demand. I go to the Disclosure Project, and I meet 39 top-secret witnesses to the UFO thing. One of them was Sgt. Clifford Stone, who had experienced a direct encounter with extraterrestrials, and he asked them, "What's in it for me?" And they said "A new world if you can take it". I remember that because that is what they have been telling me, too.

So, by this point I had a public presence. I didn't really talk about the reincarnation thing too much.

I'm at this conference, and I am meeting all these Black Ops guys, and it starts to become clearer and clearer the extent to which this UFO scenario is really true. I was in the May 10th briefing, which was a closed executive summary briefing for members of Congress and VIP's. I happened to be a VIP, because I was a public figure in the UFO field. I didn't have any money, was not really well known, but fine. So that event really transformed me and got me my first exposure to black ops people.

One guy who had a reading, Winn Free, wanted to write a book; and it didn't happen until years later, that I allowed this to be done, but we finally wrote this book called 'The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce'. I didn't want to give them a very good picture of me, because I didn't want my face to be on the cover, so they used a picture - but it had to be really small, inside this little nebula. [holds up book]

This book sold pretty darn well for a while, for a while it was the third best selling title in 'Frog's entire new age catalog.

As I went on and got more involved with my source, I realized that I was in contact with this same source RA. If you think we have gone off the deep end before now, just you wait - cause we are only getting started.

This source said that it is in the sixth dimension, or the sixth density, and that at that level we all have a higher self; which is this part of us a million years more evolved than we are, and which travels back in time to help us to get to the future. To help us spiritually grow.

Lets say that you have a future self that you are going to be, and here is who you are now - and there is a finite number of steps that you have to make to get from here to there. Well, the steps can't be changed.

But what if it's like an accordion and you can fold time, so that you can make those steps in a shorter amount of linear time? That's what the higher self's job is - to teach you spiritually so that you can get there faster.

Well, they said that they are at the sixth dimensional level, where the higher self is. At that point you have an entire planet of beings who have fused into one Consciousness - but it's not like the 'Borg', like the nasty hive mind thing. This is a positive thing where everybody's thoughts are one.

They said they originally started out on the planet Venus 1.5 billion years ago, that it was like earth, and it had people like us - and that they evolved, and they grew from the fourth dimension, fifth dimension, and were now on the sixth dimensional level.

Now there would be no reason why I would believe something so far out as this, except that this data that was in this book, scientifically speaking, correlated with so many other things I had researched, and which only came out after the material was channeled in 1981.

So how is that possible unless there is something authentic happening?

Then I started to have personal relationships with the source. Let me tell you one very interesting story. A woman was having UFO visitations in her apartment. She would be lying there in bed with her husband in the middle of the night, and there'd be this beaming light coming in the window, and entities would appear in the room and sometimes take her on board their ship. So she found my website and wanted to have a reading.

Well, what I would do at that time is I would sleep on it and wake up in the morning with a dream, and then do the reading. I would call the person that afternoon tell them for 15 minutes, which always ended up being an hour, what the reading said, and then send them a tape in the mail.

So I called her up the day after the reading (she knew when it was going to be), and she said "did you dream anything last night".

I said "Oh yeah, I had this dream where I was stuck inside a giant cathedral."

She starts losing it - sobbing, on the other end of the phone. I'm like, "are you okay, what is going on here?"

She said, 'Last night, it happened again!"

What happened?"

"The light."

"Outside the window?"

"Yeah. This man showed up in the room, and he was in a white robe with gray hair."

I know that guy!

He said, "I am going to tell you something very important. You need to write it down, or else you won't remember."

She says, "Okay."

He says, "Remember the giant Cathedral."

So, she just went nuts! It was crazy! And so I said, "Okay, I guess this source can make house calls in certain cases."

Later on, I am in North Carolina, visiting a friend again, an ARE person who is very into the idea of Edgar Cayce coming back. I'm out in the field meditating, and you know - you get to a state of divine indifference, where you really don't care about anything except the oneness and the peace of that moment. I open up my eyes and I see this disc in the sky, and it goes behind a cloud, and the cloud blows away and disc is gone.

Oh wow, now I've seen a UFO, I have always wanted to see one of those. The only other thing that I always wanted to happen, that now should happen, is I need to have a ball of light give me an intelligent message. So I kept mediating and didn't think anything more of it.

I called my father a couple of days later, and he said, "You'll never guess who is on the other end of the telephone!

"Let me guess…my brother? Yeah dad, you realize this is psychic ability right?

"Oh yeah, you're ESP thing, whatever."

I actually did eventually prove to my dad that something was going on, because he worked at a publishing office, and he had this woman there, and I didn't know anything about her. I walked up to her, held her hand, looked in her eyes and told her whole story.

I can do that, when I meet somebody new, I can go into this whole place, and tell somebody their life story, and it gets tears! It gets intense and it's really powerful. It's the easiest time to read somebody - when you first meet them - before your mind is colored with any new data.

My brother is talking on the other line, and I say, "Yeah I had this really cool thing, where I was out in the field meditating and I see this tiny little disk, a metallic thing that went behind a cloud, and the cloud moves and it's gone. If it was an airplane it would have kept on going, but it disappeared. I always knew there had to be UFOs. I'm sure this is real but who cares." The only other thing I said was I needed a ball of light to come into my room and give me an intelligent message.

My brother goes, "What did you say?"

"A ball of light to appear in my room and give me an intelligent message."

He said, "Oh my God!"

"What's going on?"

"The other night I was in my room, and I was meditating, and my head started dropping back like this [demonstrates], and I see this ball of light appear in the room, and it gradually lasted ten minutes, it spread into this vortex on the ceiling that was all like different shades of luminous blue in the middle - it was almost lightning colored - and then it just got dimmer and dimmer, but there were these layers of it like ripples on a pond. It formed this vortex, this cone that was going up into the air. I kept watching this and if finally faded out and formed a kidney shape energy between myself and my girlfriend."

She had insomnia, and after this happened she was able to sleep every night without any trouble.

"As it was fading, I really didn't want it to go away! I was in such ecstasy. This is an incredible thing that happened to me! As it was leaving, I heard these words in my mind; and it said, the ascension that your brother is writing about will not happen all at once. It is an experience of cosmic connection to the universe that comes in a sequence of events increasingly uplifting and amazing - you have just experienced the first of these events."

So it was like they administratively found a way to get (me) this message, which changed the way I talked about ascension, because I had always talked about it as a big switch that was going to go off in all directions.

In the Law of One series, the source of all this stuff that I was studying said 2012 - sometime between 2011 and 2013 (this was back in 1981), before people were talking about the Mayan calendar, or knew what the end date of the Mayan calendar was, but they gave the same time coordinates.

PART 2

In the history of the Law of One series, the Law of One was channeled by three people: Don Elkins, Carla Rueckert and Jim McCarty. Twenty years of research and channeling went into this before they did it.

Don Elkins was originally part of the Elkins Mantel flying school, a different Elkins than him, he was just a student there. Mantel is the famous crash in which the guy tried to follow a UFO in his airplane, and got into the field coming off of it, and it shot all these holes through the ship.

So it was like a gravity field around the airplane crash, and you had to kind of lean, when you went near it, and you couldn't stand up straight, kind of like the Santa Cruz mystery spot, which I visited, or the Oregon Vortex. Well, the body was in a horrific state, and there were pores shot through the plane everywhere.

So this is part of what got our government guys thinking that the UFOs could be hostile in their intent. But you've got to remember, now, we've grown up in a society, ever since the late 40's, early 50's, in which we have mutually assured destruction, nuclear missiles aimed at each other.

There is no way... I mean, what does winning a nuclear war mean? How do you win a nuclear war? The 'War Games' movie did a really great job at making us clear about that.

Now, at lot of these witnesses at the Disclosure Project are saying they saw these UFOs hovering over nuclear missile silos and they would power down the whole silo, and the missiles were not launch capable. In fact, there were other cases where they were doing a missile test, and it's flying through the air, and this orb would appear and start shooting beams at it and it would clunk down, and it would be completely radioactively inert, and there was no radioactivity left. It could not even detonate if you wanted it to.

This is just the beginning of where we start to understand that there has been a lot of negative propaganda in films, telling you that extra-terrestrials are evil. There is a battle going on between good guys and bad guys because there are a lot of different ETs out there, there are a lot of civilizations visiting the earth.

Darwinian evolution is not a viable model. The Law of One series teaches us that the galactic creator they call 'the Logos' created a body that it then writes into the energy around us. So what that means is the human body shows up on every planet in the galaxy where life can form; it is a natural evolution. Some might get there by insects, some might get there by lizards, some might get there by mammals, like we do; some might get there by cetaceans Some might get there even by vegetation, apparently.

This very crazy idea that trees could detach and walk around, I realize would probably be ridiculous to most people. But if you start getting into the idea that life is a field, it explains a lot of very strange things.

For example, research has been consistency done on a fruit fly known as Drosophila, in which they altered the DNA so that the eyes don't form; it's a mutant without eyes. No matter what they have done ever, to mess with the Drosophilus DNA, after five generations the eyes come back.

There is another plant that has been used in laboratory studies for 25 years, they mess with the plant and no matter what they do to mess with the DNA to make it alter and mutate, 25% of the time those plants fix their DNA. That means this whole idea of terminator seeds and genetically modified crops will never really happen, because nature can re-write itself, and fix the errors in the DNA.

But it goes a lot more than that when you have Dan Burisch, ( whom you guys have interviewed) he's talking about his Lotus project in which you have a crystal of silicone basically like quartz, and you just put it in distilled water purified and run the whole thing in an autoclave, there is no way that there would be contamination in it. Hit it with a little bolt of electricity, and things start growing in the water! Well, this has been done since the last century, in the 19th century.

Sir William Crookes is one of the guys who did this. He took a volcanic rock, electrified it, put some drops of water on it, and these little mites grew out of this murk, and they grew legs and detached and started walking around.

There are other researchers, mostly from the Reich camp; Wilhelm Reich with the orgone stuff... Wright was demonstrating this over and over again in the laboratory. Now his research isn't criticized, he calls them bions - corpuscles of energy that form living things. But it's since been done under extremely powerful laboratory conditions.

Furthermore, Dr. Francis Crick, who was one of the co-discoverers of the DNA molecule, showed that the dust in the galaxy, when you take a line of sight from where we are to the center of the galaxy, 99.9% of that dust in the galaxy has all the spectrographic signatures, all the lightwaves that you expect to see from living bacteria.

So panspermia, the idea that life was seeded on the earth, it's more than that. Life is the field, the energy that is around us, that underlies matter. Not electromagnetic energy, there's a deeper energy called torsion fields.

That is the energy of consciousness; it is the energy that allows me to be psychic so I can think what somebody else is thinking after his thoughts come into my mind; it is the energy of source, it is the energy of time. Time is actually not an invariant. Time is locally variable, and that's one of the really fascinating things you start learning.

Now, as I told you guys, I've met with a variety of Black Ops scientists, and one of the things that they keep saying again and again is that time can be altered by electromagnetic means, a very strong electromagnetic coil, and this gets back into the Philadelphia Experiment. So I guess this is the time where you guys wanted me to get into the Daniel story.

Kerry: Certainly, Daniel's an interesting place to start. You did say that Daniel has... in some ways you got in touch with us because you said that our Henry Deacon, a lot of what he has come up with has been verified by your relationship with Daniel. Maybe I'm not putting it in the right words.

David: No. What do I do when I have been given access by extreme, wonderful synchronicity to connect with somebody who is in the Black Ops, black operations, meaning off the government radar of official, congressional inquiry into how the funding is being allocated.

I get this guy. He tells me stuff that nobody else has ever said in any public forum. I go to this website called Project Camelot, and you guys have the same data! I just about lost it! I said: Maybe it's true.

I mean, I knew it was true because when you spend enough time with somebody, which I did, with this guy Daniel, you know when somebody is telling the truth. If somebody is going to try to attack me and say well, you know, he was telling a big story, it's like, I'm sorry: I interrogated this guy so many different ways. I have all the science that builds up to the things that he said, all be in place.

I'm now out here in Hollywood. I'm working on a film called Convergence, the Movie. I've gotten into the whole system of Hollywood, and I've put together a series of data, which we are going to make into a movie called 'Convergence', as I said.

This really is where my interest is, more than in trying to say, "I'm Edgar Cayce". The book came out years ago. I haven't really done that much to promote it. I don't talk about it on the radio. I've gave you guys the story. But what I'm really fascinated with is the science of consciousness, and so we're doing a whole film about this.

So I have all the science now to get from the mainstream model, to these very exotic things that are in the Black Ops community.

The Law of One series, which started with channeling in the 50's and went all the way forward from there, is sort of like the base that everything has come from and everything that I find keeps tying back into this, including the Dan Burisch testimony, including many other testimonies; some of the things that Deacon said - everything was in this book from 1981, so that tells me there is some truth in there, plus the fact that I have personal experience with this source and it made two house calls to that woman where the light came in her window and then to my brother in his bedroom.

So getting back to this Daniel situation, I had the opportunity to meet this guy. I had flown to New York. I'd gotten off the plane. I was going to visit my mother. It was winter time and we didn't have transportation to get me down. It was like there was a storm. There was ice all over the roads, so I had to stay in a hotel that night. I needed to eat something so I got in the taxi and I went to the Denny's; and it just so happened before I left that this book had gotten my attention again, The Montauk Project.

Now I read this book in the 90's before I ever found the Law of one, and I thought it was completely horse pucky, I just had no interest in it. But I just said let me bring it along as reading material, so I had it with me.

I'm in this Denny's late at night and this guy walks past and he kind of looks like a Harley guy, like a biker, you know in his leather jacket kind of thing and he says, " what you think about that Montauk Project?" I said: "Oh, it's ridiculous. This is a joke. I'm just reading this for entertainment". He said: "Could I talk to you about something?" "Okay".

So he sits down and he says, I worked at Montauk. I literally laughed in his face. I said, "You've got to be kidding me."

To make along story short, he gives me this enormous download. I'm scribbling stuff on the back of a napkin and the back of the place thing that they give you at Denny's and we made a contact and I've had numerous opportunities to connect with him since that time.

I can't get into a lot of detail. He does not want to come forward; he is terrified of publicity. He has been willing to do some audio work so he can get his testimony recorded on audio, but I'm going to have to garble his voice.

So, here's the deal. Now, first of all, let's not forget. If even one UFO sighting is real, meaning not swamp gas, then we're not alone and there are UFOs. As soon as you accept that, you have to also accept the fact that they can materialize and de-materialize. So they are winking in and out of our reality somehow. Well, how would they do that?

Apparently, the answer is in the seat. You have a seat in the UFO and it plugs into your mind and you think, "I want to go to a particular place." You visualize where that place is. This vortex opens up in front of your ship. Your ship flies through the vortex. The vortex closes behind you and you end up going where you need to go.

So what happens if a disc crashes, and our government guys pops a seat out of the UFO and start tinkering with it? And then what happens if they get health problems?

A particular group of extra terrestrials from Sirius, apparently, and the ETs are telling them, "design this coil and build it this way and built a big octahedron, like two Egyptian pyramids top to bottom, and that's your main antenna."

So, to make a long story short, it took a number of years, but there was a series of progressive steps that led to the ability to bring this chair on line, so that it was fully functional in its intended purpose. The chair had, this is all stuff... now Daniel got hired in at this job. He was an Air Force captain, and he was given a sentry position at this place, kind of like a guard; but he also had a variety of tasks that were to be performed. He did not know what was going on.

So what happened in the early days was, he was in the cafeteria, eating his lunch or whatever, and you'd see over in the corner of the room that it would start to burble like a mirage, and you would see something that shouldn't be there. Like you might see through the wall into the other room, or you might see a field with green grass or something, and sometimes it would be up near the ceiling and sometimes it would be in the floor.

So it turns out that everybody talked to the janitor. The janitor had somehow gained everybody's confidence, so they started having these meetings with the janitor. The janitor started telling them what was going on.

Now gradually over time, he apparently was indoctrinated and got fully knowledgeable about what was going on. This was an abandoned military base at the far out point of Long Island called Montauk.

He did say that the first book in the Montauk Project series was authentic, and that pretty much everything in the book is true. He then went on to say that every book since then has been increasingly distorted and not truthful.

He knew Al Bielek. He knew Preston Nichols. He knew Duncan Cameron. He knew Stuart Swerdlow, all these guys were there.

Duncan ran the chair the best, Duncan was the guy that could run the chair. He had some experience working with the chair. He said that they originally tried to build one reverse engineered and that didn't work. They eventually had to go back to the original design, use the actual real chair, not one that had been rebuilt. There was something about these Helmholtz coils that had to be altered.

So, basically what happens is, you are in the chair. There are 22, I think he said 22, wavelengths that the chair creates that are like your mind waves, your brain waves, and from these 22 wave lengths, all other waves come from your mind.

So when you sit in the chair, they would have you go into what they call the quiet point, and this is a point where your mind is perfectly still.

Now normally if you go in the chair if your mind isn't quiet, the waves are going to be fluctuating all the time. If you go quiet, then the waves will sort of stop and go to a fixed point, like this. (gesticulates) Well, out of the 22, if you have a wave that looks like this, the idea is to get it to go flat. They would zero out the chair, 22 knobs, 22 waves and flatten out all the graphs. Duncan Cameron, apparently, was the only person who could get everything perfectly zeroed out, perfectly stable.

There was an extremely, extremely, enormous power supply that was required to run this chair. It was a non-standard frequency. It was not alternating current, 120 hertz; it was some weird decimal point number of hertz that they had to run through the chair.

But what would happen is that consciousness would create matter.

They found that you could think about an object, like let's say you thought about a particular wooden chair and you visualize the chair, the chair would start forming in the room. First maybe very shimmery and sort of like you couldn't even see it and it would harden up. Depending on how much thought energy you would put into it, it would stay solid for a period of time and then it would dissipate and sort of disappear back into the background.

Then they started to find out that if you thought about a particular place that there would be an opening that would appear and you would go to that place. You could send somebody through it and then they could walk around in there for awhile and other people could see them. It was like they were there and then you would have to have the person in the chair physically pull them out with conscious intent to get them back out.

Now they did do a lot of experimentation. They sent innocent people through, and they were killed. Some of these were street tramps; some of these were homeless kids.

Apparently, Swerdlow was responsible for recruiting a lot of the kids.

I believe it's possible people can change; Daniel doesn't. He talked about Al Bielek He said Bielek was a big story teller, always had some funny thing going on.

Daniel claims he, himself, never went through the vortex.

At some point they realized that they had gone to a place that was not the present, that they had traveled through time. They got very excited about this.

Now this is where it gets really strange. It just gets stranger and stranger.

Supposedly, we have a body that they call the transient body, and then we have a physical body. The transient body is what new-agers would call the astral body. At the point that you're first conceived, it's called your zero time reference (ZTR), that moment is where you have contact with this place called zero time.

Now the physics model goes like this. If you can imagine space/time like a sheet, everything above the sheet is the world that we inhabit, the reality that we inhabit. Everything below the sheet is this three dimensional reality that's kind of like where anti-matter is.

It's like the astral plane, a mirror image of where we are now. As you accelerate though space you start curving space ,and eventually it curves around in on itself like a donut and that's a torus, it's called a torus. If you keep on going, the torus unrolls.

Now because of what I've told you with this sheet thing, you got time in here, space in here. (Time below the sheet, space above) Time is three-dimensional down there, Space is three dimensional up here. As the sheet curls in you get time on the inside of the donut, but then as you keep going, the donut unrolls in the other direction and the time that was down here unrolls and becomes your space.

So you're now in a three-dimensional world, you can walk around in, you can inhabit, but it's out of phase with our reality and people in this reality wouldn't see you, you'd disappear.

So this is apparently what was done inadvertently with the Philadelphia Experiment. The Philadelphia Experiment started with tests that were done on very, very high intensity welding, arc welding of navel vessels, and they had these enormous pieces of steel that they are welding together. They blast it with electrical energy at a very high frequency and they started to notice the tools would disappear after this. They couldn't find them.

They finally filmed it and they found that when they blasted this arc welding thing, that there would be this big black hole that would appear in the room, and they discovered that, in fact, it was de-materializing objects and that they wouldn't come back.

So this is what led them to do increasing amounts of research, discovering that electrical energy is one way that you can pop this hole between space/time and time/space, and get through to this realm down here.

Well, they tried to send a ship of sailors through. and unfortunately there was an inconsistency in the hull. The ship's hull was kind of used as an antenna to allow this energy to form around the ship properly. They put coils on the ship and there were coils off shore. The ship, apparently, got caught up in this energy flow. It manifested up in Philadelphia, hence the Philadelphia Experiment, (it was originally the Norfolk Naval Shipyard) and then it popped back to the shipyard.

Some of the sailors were actually imbedded in the hull. Some of them burst into flames, some of them would appear and disappear because they were here, but if you get energetically tuned to this, then you can flip-flop between the two halves of the torus, so to speak, and the matter in their bodies would do that.

So, in the 1920's, Tesla built something that would stabilize your ZTR. It's called a Zero Time Reference, and let me explain what that means.

Here is space/time, here is time/space, and in the middle is zero time. You're not in space, you're not in time. When you go there apparently it looks kind of gray.

In zero time we all have a point at which we were conceived, where the transient body or the spiritual body, and the physical body join. As we get older there is like a widening cone between the physical and the metaphysical self. That forms your biological age.

If you mess with the ZTR, it's like you push the top over, but the bottom is still where it is, this gap creates great static which in some cases causes you to burst into flames and other cases causes you to go comatose. Sometimes your sense of time gets really screwed up.

For example, with some of these guys you'd have to rub their skin for days at a time, the exposed flesh, they would just be... paused, because in their time only a few seconds have gone by in what amounts to years of time for us, or maybe weeks of time. So by rubbing them, you could eventually get them to slow down and rejoin their time reference with where we are.

Now one of the things Daniel told me was that some people were able to psychically reconstruct the ship from memory. They remembered that they were on a ship. They remembered where the ship was, where the floor was, where the walls were. They were the ones who came out okay.

So that was part of the research. Now since that time, the Philadelphia Experiment was not dropped, it has since been parlayed into technologies, including jump-gate technology, as I have heard it has been called, in which they now can warp you from one place to another.

There is apparently, as you guys disclosed with Deacon, a stable jump gate between Earth and Mars... an inhabited base on Mars, I heard that too. Daniel also came across the fact that Mars had been inhabited in ancient history, and that there were artifacts all over the place. He also said he saw a photograph of astronauts waving next to a pyramid, in basic NASA spacesuits.

So it's not easy when people realize that you have been lied to, and that there is a lot you don't know, but that it's the reality of what's happened.

So they got a chair from the UFO and they started using these same principles, and took it further.

Now, one guy was actually crazy enough to go back in time, and he killed his father, because he wanted to see what would happen, I guess. You know, there are some nasty guys working in Black Ops and it was also a suicide move, you would think.

Well, he felt great. I mean, he went and he killed his father, which apparently resolved a lot of anger issues for him, and he came back, "I'm fine, everything's fine." The next day, or a couple of days later, he stepped out in traffic, got hit by a car and was instantly killed.

So from that they came to the conclusion that time is like a living fabric that repairs the tears that are made; repairs the rips that are made as much as it can.

The most interesting thing that Daniel ever told me was, of course, well, first of all before we get to that, your ZTR determines your absolute biological age. So apparently, if you travel into the future and your ZTR says that you were born in 1956, let's say, You travel into the future ten years, fifteen years down the road, in a matter of a couple of hours, your body becomes ten or fifteen years older. When you travel back in time, you revert back to the age you were when you left, in a relatively short period of time.

Now, this is very anomalous, and suggests a very multi-dimensional component to the biological aging. So they had to find a way to shift the ZTR in order to send somebody through, and Daniel believes they had, but he did not have access to that information.

They were taking wavelengths of the psychic's mind, analyzing them and trying to figure out a way to mechanically generate them, so that they wouldn't need the psychic. They were using a variety of psychics, but Duncan Cameron happened to be the one who had the most success.

So they sent people through time, there was a twenty-year wave that came out which apparently was a natural harmonic of the Earth in its rotation, and you could plot on the wave very precisely what time somebody was in by how far the wave went. If the wave went to here and then stopped, they could calculate, ok, that's 1996, January 15th, or whatever.

The wave keeps going, and this is what really drove these guys crazy; is that there was a certain point, (they were sending people into the future) there was a certain point on that twenty-year wave as they're traveling along through a time tunnel, at which all the waves, a hundred-some plus waves from the chair, and that was just the number that they had analyzed, there were hundreds more that they weren't even looking at; the
amount of cables coming out of the chair was in this two inch by three inch box coming out, a huge amount of data.

All the graphs would go flat-line, for about five or six seconds and then come back on line; but during that time, you couldn't see anything. The graphs were gone.

Well, then they asked the people, what happened to you during this time; and they said, "It 's the most fantastic thing I've ever experienced in my whole life! It was like, I'm one with the galaxy! I could be a star, I could be a planet. I could zoom in on the planet. I had access to all knowledge there ever was to know! I could be a sub-atomic particle. I could be an atom, a molecule. I could fly anywhere, do anything, know anything, be anything! It seems like there is no time, it just goes on eternally. Absolute ecstasy! It was the most wonderful thing I have ever experienced in my whole life, and I do not want to leave."

When you first hit it, it's like hitting a really intense bump. Like slamming into something, so they call it the 'bump', or the discontinuity. The experience of going out of the reality you know, they call it 'the full out', that you would have this full out experience.

So then, all of the graphs went silent, which drove these guys crazy, because they wanted to be able to re-play that part and analyze the waves, but they couldn't. So then they're looking at the time line and they look at this 20 year wave, and they find out exactly how far it went, right up until poof, everything goes flat. It was December 21, 2012. So here we get into your whole 2012 thing.

Well, the Law of One tells us what is going to happen in 2012. The channeled material was talking about it before. So when Daniel starts telling me this, I am aware that this is not a guy who is lying, because there were too many things that I asked him. I cross-examined him, and met him on multiple occasions. Then when you guys came out with your Henry Deacon testimony, it really was fascinating.

Before we go any further, I want to make sure I mention my web site. My web site is divinecosmos.com. You can read about more of this testimony, more of all this kind of stuff I'm talking about. There are audio interviews that I have done in our archives. We have a great CD series, which we've put together called, 'The Science of Peace', which goes into a lot of the consciousness science, understanding this stuff.

Now this is what I came to. We have zero time reference when we are born. Time and space become one at the moment of our conception. Daniel doesn't agree with me, but I believe that 2012 is the ZTR of the earth. That it's a new re-birth of the earth's energy body, and it makes a lot of sense. So it is at that moment that we have this implosion and everything kind of comes together.

Now Don Elkins, the guy who was the questioner in the Law of One series, has access to channeling materials that were brought through with the help of this guy W.B. Smith, who you will encounter frequently if you read about ufology.

W.B. Smith worked for Canada in the Defense Ministry, and was the only officially sanctioned program that investigated this global grid. It was called, 'Project Magnet', the idea that there is this energy grid on the earth, criss-crossing lines.

When you hear Dan Burisch's testimony, he talks about natural stargates. Those are points where these lines cross. They form nodes. A node is basically a dimensional crossing point. Now you have two counter rotating geometries on the earth. One that pretty much stays stable and determines the shape of the continents, and then there's another one that we don't see which counter-rotates; and as the two go through each other at certain points the nodes will cross. If those node points cross together and you have a favorable planetary alignment at the same time, you get this surge of energy in which space/time and time/space, there is that crossing point briefly.

The Bermuda Triangle is a natural stargate. If these two grids cross over each other, the nodes connect, the alignment is right, then you can end up flying through this vortex and fly clear into time/space and end up not in our reality anymore.

The reason why all this stuff is important is that 2012 literally represents a vortex activity across the entire earth. That's what I have concluded from the research. Every person on earth, except for maybe some of the people that are on the negative spiritual path, called Service to Self, but almost everybody on earth is going to go through this vortex experience, which is an ecstatic thing; it's not a terrifying or painful event at all. It's similar to how the 'full out' happens. Our whole planet goes into that.

Now, I read about ascension and all these things for a long time and I said, "How could this be possible? How could something like this happen?" There would have to be a massive surge of energy in the solar system that would be demonstrating this.

The work that W.B. Smith was doing in the 50s with people who were contacted by UFOs shows that they had information coming through from channeling, which was very accurate; Smith had a list of 200 specific questions about UFOs, and he only took the people where the channel answered every question the same way. Sometimes the questions were a little different and the channel would say that that's because the person is a Christian and they are biased with their religious beliefs, something like that.

Anyway, all these channels said the same thing and one of the things that they kept saying was the whole solar system is going to get charged up with energy. You're going to see all the planets changing, and you're going to see a transformation occur. Earth changes, cataclysmic changes will seem to be happening, but then there's going to be this big energetic event and the earth will be propelled into a golden age.

There is what's called a three way split when this happens. Some people stay on the positive path. Those are the people who stay with the earth. The earth becomes fourth dimensionally activated.

When you have an out of body experience, which I've done, you fly up into the sky, you go above a certain point, it's kind of like a feeling. For a long time I couldn't get past the feeling. It drove me nuts because I want to go into space and I couldn't get past this feeling.

Well, eventually I was able to do that, punch through. You punch through the ceiling and there's a new earth underneath you; and you fly up again and you punch through another one. There's a new earth again! And there are buildings and there are cars and there are people. These are like the after life planes where people go after they've physically died.

If you go high enough, you go up to the 7th one and it's all like Stonehenge, and there's all these people walking around in robes and headbands, and they are all very friendly to you and they say hello, and they know that you're there but they're really kind of surprised to see you. I've been there a couple of times.

If you go past that then you go out into space, and typically you end up finding yourself on a UFO pretty quickly, 'cause they see you and they find you, and you hang out and talk to the ETs, and most of them are very friendly. I've never really had a negative ET experience myself. I know other people have.

So to make a long story short, there is a plane that is con-centered with the earth as a globe, which would be up in the sky, probably even above the altitude you're flying at when you are in an airplane, and that's going to be where people live who are on the positive pat, as this happens.

Now it does get a little evangelical sounding; Christian prophecy - Jesus mentioned something that they call the rapture. There are lines in the book of Daniel talking about where there are two, and then there shall be one. Two shall be walking in the field and then there shall be one. Two shall be making wine and then there will be one, all this stuff.

But you've got to remember, Christianity is not the only religion that has this prophecy. It runs through Aboriginal prophecy, Hindu prophecy, Buddhist prophecy, Native-American prophecies. The Ragnaroc is the Celtic legend. Pretty much any ancient wisdom teaching you'll find, says something discontinuous, spontaneous and amazing, leading to a golden age, is going to happen on the earth.

I don't think that this pole shift thing will happen until after this happens, and most people will have popped through it before the pole shift ever occurs.

Now again, this is really lunatic fringe stuff; however, I did the research. I looked through countless reams of websites and printed them out. I have a huge bookshelf we could film if we have time, to show you all the research I did. NASA studies, again and again, showing every planet in the solar system, except for Mercury; but the Sun, Venus, Mars, Earth, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto - all of them are having massive climate changes.

They're getting brighter, they're getting hotter, and the magnetic field is growing larger. In some cases, like Saturn, they are rotating at a different speed.

Kerry: And you did all this research for Richard Hoagland...

David: That's correct.

Kerry: ...and actually are working with Hoagland on this, and he's published some of your research.

David: I had first found out about this from the work of Dr. Alexei Dmitriev, who is a Russian scientist, published in 1997. But he didn't have NASA data, he had Russian data, so I ended up talking to Hoagland about this in 2004, and I had done a little bit more research but not too much.

We were talking on the phone and he said, "David, you've got to do it. You've got to get the whole thing from NASA. If this is true, it's the biggest story we've got."

So I just hit the books, and I just went nuts on the internet, Googling, research, research, research; and what I came out with is a very impressive document which your contact, Henry Deacon, said was everything you needed to know about what's going on in the solar system. It's called Interplanetary Day After Tomorrow. It's a paper I wrote with Richard Hoagland. You can find it on his website, which is enterprisemission.com.

You can also find links to it on my page, and I'm going to be putting up a concise version of all the data in the future, that you can read at divinecosmos.com.

Why is this important? This gets back into the studies from the Russians about DNA, dealing with a particular experiment that was done.

First of all we have Dr. Glen Rein, an American scientist who showed - he took placental DNA from a human placenta, put it in a test-tube and had people trained to create certain emotional states. They'd hold the test tube and they'd feel the greatest anger and rage you can imagine, or they'd feel the love of a mother for her newborn baby, the most pure, unconditional love.

What Dr. Rein found is that when you feel the love the DNA unwinds and when the helix unwinds, the messenger RNA can go in and grab the code, and build life, build healing, build the healing of your body, the healing of cancer, diabetes, whatever. The anger causes the DNA to knot up like a braid of hair, and then you can't get healing at all.

Now this is the kind of data that I went into great detail about in my MP3 series, 'The Science of Peace', which is available on my site, and that's where I went through all this with this man who won nine Grammys in music, and his name is Larry Seyer. We did a whole musical soundtrack for it. It's wonderful! I'm just giving you a little bitty taste of it right now.

But anyway, that proves on a microbiological level that DNA is an antenna for consciousness. It's tuned to the mind and to the soul.

Well, now you have to get into this guy, Dr. Peter Gariaev, who first conducted research called the DNA Phantom Effect. He found if you put DNA in a little room in which it can absorb light, all the light gets stuck in the DNA and spirals through the molecule. It doesn't stay in the room. The DNA is like a light sponge, which is really weird, right?

But then you take the DNA out of the tube and the light keeps on spiraling as if the DNA was still there holding it in place, but there is no DNA. Guess how long it stays like that? How long do you think? 30 days! For 30 days the DNA continues to act, even though it's not there anymore.

This is what we call a latent structure, a latent structuring effect. This is a common feature of what the Russians call torsion fields, which I get into great detail about in the 'Science of Peace' MP3 series on my website divinecosmos.com

Anyway, Gariaev went further than that, he took a frog embryo and a salamander embryo and took a non burning laser, and shines it through the salamander embryo, redirects the light into the frog embryo, all he's doing is beaming light into hermetically sealed containers, and what do you think happens?

Well, you don't really want to go there, but remember what we said about the Drosophilus, the fruit fly? The DNA code of the eye is taken out, and five generations later the eyes pop back on.

You have this plant and you make it mutate; standard laboratory plant, and 25% of the time the mutations heal. What do you think happens if you shine the energy of the salamander embryo into a frog embryo - just the light beam? The frog embryo completely re-tools itself 100% and becomes a salamander, and there is no genetic evidence of it ever having been a frog whatsoever.

Now if we want to get really off into the far fringes of things, you have this secret group which we have heard a lot about called the Illuminati, and they are very into bloodlines, and they say there is magical power in the bloodlines; and that's why there are these 13 families ... they don't inter-marry and that's why if you are in The Illuminati you are born into the Illuminati.

I do believe that they exist. I have spoken to witnesses who are members of it, who got out. But they are all into this magic power of the blood, but what did I just tell you? You can take a salamander embryo and send that energy into a frog, but what if your body is the frog and the salamander energy is like the cosmos, the logos, the galactic creator?

That's what the Great Pyramid was built for. You sit in the tomb, the open coffer in the pyramid. The pyramid is a centralizing, focusing, spiral of energy. It takes this energy and makes it into a spiral.

I don't have the time to describe the physics of how this works, it's in the 'Science of Peace' but you can experience ascension in the pyramid. That's what it was built for. It was built as a chamber of healing.

So the Illuminati are the inheritors of this Atlantean science, which was then distorted, according to the Law of One series, thousands and thousands of years ago; seven, eight, nine thousand years ago, these negative energies got involved and changed the teaching and put it into a more negative direction.

That's where you get into the sacrifices and all these things that the Mayans ended up doing, the secret orders end up doing these things. Sacrifice is one way to open up the shift between space/time and time/space.

In the death process, you pop a hole through the veil temporarily. It's a conscious energy, so in a ritual, people can focus that energy and use it for something, including creating this opening; especially if you are at a natural star gate kind of thing. So there are technological means to do this also.

Now I am not a supporter of animal sacrifice, or any other type of sacrifice, I think it's something you will end up paying for karmically. That's the thing that's really crazy about the secret orders. It's not that I dislike them as people. I have known a lot of people that are in these groups. Its more that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how consciousness really functions, which is a loving creation that we live in.

Dan Burisch's data talks about a group of entities from Orion; that is mentioned in the Law of One series. The Law of One series says that the Orions are a negative group. Negative, meaning that they have an intention to try to take over, to try to control people through fear.

So these Orions, according to Dan Burisch's testimony, come from the future, travel back in time and they are trying to fix their genetic code. They're trying to fix their DNA. They say this because they were bred from a small number of people who survived the cataclysm on earth.

So, put your thinking cap on! What did we just learn about DNA?

DNA is something that is modified by an outside energy. You can take a salamander embryo, zap it, re-direct into a frog embryo, the frog transforms. So the universe, even if you have a small population, you can still rejuvenate your DNA by consciousness.

That's not what's happening to the J-rods. The J-rods are experiencing what the Law of One referred to as the dissolution of the spirit body. When you're on the negative path, meaning the path where you create fear and you are trying to manipulate and control others, eventually you get to a point where your soul cannot hold its charge. Your soul begins dissolving and it actually affects your DNA.

Now, this (the Law of One Material) is in the 80s. This is 1981. Burisch's testimony comes out in 2000/2001. I saw this and I thought, "Oh my Gosh, this is a direct validation of what's in the Law of One series!"

You have to realize that there are two opposing ... according to Burisch, there's the Illuminati on one side and there are the neo-cons on the other side, Majestic or the 'order of death' as Alex Jones just called it in his documentary, which is now number one on Google video at the moment.

So, you have two groups - the Illuminati believe in a luciferian philosophy.

Imagine if you are this secret society and you've been around for thousands of years and then this group comes along and says they're Christian, and they start torturing and killing all your people, and telling you that your knowledge is evil and that you are a bad person. Your natural instinct is going to be to say, okay, well, whoever they say is the bad guy, must be the good guy. Oh, well, Lucifer was the angel who had the greatest amount of wisdom and light; God's brightest angel who was tossed out of heaven.

Well, wherever he got thrown out from, that's not where we want to be because these Christians are torturing us, persecuting us, killing us. The Christians are suppressing science because they only say the bible's way. They are suppressing your natural instincts. They don't want you to have sex, they don't want you to procreate, except under unique circumstances with a contract, legal contract, marriage.

So the Illuminati got started as a natural rebellion, of these secret orders, to what was already being established. They brought in the Egyptian Gods, Isis and Osiris.

Osiris is represented in Egyptian mythology by the severed phallus, the penis, which is symbolized by the obelisk.

Isis is symbolized by a woman holding the torch, which represents the secret mystery school teachings, and the book which represents the mystery school teachings, and she has these rays coming off of her head.

Torch, book, rays on the head, American sculpture, harbor of New York City - ah, the Statue of Liberty! Obelisk - ah, Washington Monument! Hmm.

So this is the back of the dollar bill, the pyramid, the eye on top. They hide it right out in front of you, and they laugh at you. They laugh at you because you don't understand. I have been with these guys. I have been in the room with them and they laugh at the average person at how stupid they are... in their minds, stupidity. I don't agree with that, but it is nonetheless amazing that they put the information out there, if you want to know it you can know it, so few people believe it and they are smug with their sarcasm and don't believe any of this stuff.

But here's the deal. The 2012 thing is about consciousness evolution. It's about love. It's about choosing to love.

All you have to do to get to be a part of the earth that's coming, is be slightly more focused on loving people and helping them, rather than manipulating and controlling them.

If you have ten things that you do each day, five of them are negative meaning you manipulate, you control people, five of them are positive, meaning of yeah, you can get in front of me in traffic, or let me help you across the street, if it's a perfect mix of 5 to 5, then you are still not going to make it.

But if you are at 51%, meaning that 49% of the things that you do are selfish and manipulative and controlling, as long as you're 51% you're going to go through this vortex, you're going to end up in the Earth in 4th density, as it's called.

How am I supposed to rectify when I get to L.A. seven years after I did these tapes, I had 25 or more tapes that I hadn't transcribed. I was in a bad relationship and I just stopped transcribing. You remember the stacks of tapes on my desk, right?

Seven years later I had a dream that was saying, "you've got to transcribe these tapes now."

I'm in Hollywood. I'm working on a movie. Seven years ago when I did this channeling, I was living in the loft of a barn working in construction. I wasn't even making enough money from my readings to do it full-time. It was 1998 and early 1999.

I sit down, and I start transcribing these tapes from seven years ago. They're talking about 2012. They're talking about ascension and they're also talking about my being in L.A, my working on a film - all these things. The names of the people I'm working with, the cat that our editor had, all the personalities. Even to the point where I had these sweet potatoes I bought at the health food store and they went to sprout on my refrigerator, and then I go back to this tape from seven years ago and it's describing sweet potatoes going to sprout on the top of a refrigerator.

Seven years from then is when this happened. We have seven years from now until 2012. I get readings where they're saying what my future is seven years in the future. In the same reading they're saying what's going to happen after 2012. That we're going to have this world that is 100 times more harmonious than what we are living in now. This is a world in which you can levitate yourself. You can manifest instant healing, instant telepathic communication, nobody can keep a secret. It's totally harmonious because there are no secrets. You can fly. It's ascension!

Jesus, in John 14:12 said: "As I do these things, so shall you do greater things, for I go unto my Father".

Now again, I'm not a fundamentalist. I'm not a bible thumper. I know it's not fashionable to be Christian, especially because of the war on terror and how that's all become manipulated into the next crusade.

But, nonetheless, don't you think that maybe Jesus knew what he was talking about? Don't you think that maybe enough people witnessed what he was doing, that this is based on real testimony and is not all a fabrication like some books have said?

Whenever I would read one of these books that would start saying that Jesus was made up and was fictional, I would start getting all these thought forms of evil and I got messages saying, look, you know, he was real. He got blown way out of proportion in terms of people making him into the only Son of God; that was never intended. Jesus would say "I'm the Son of Man."

But what if this rapture thing is real?

Well, you have a whole scenario in the Book of Revelations describing an anti-Christ, which had gotten worldwide power, that was wounded on the side and yet did live, and the mark of the beast on the forehead. The mark of the beast is people shutting down their third eye. It doesn't have anything to do with micro chipping. None of that stuff is going to happen. They might want it to happen, 'they', meaning the Illuminati or those types of people, but it won't happen.

I really don't see, prophetically speaking, a negative future for humanity. I see predominantly a positive future. I have had dreams in which the entire pantheon of Neo-cons in the Bush administration ends up being held accountable for what they have been doing, which involves manipulation and control.

I think we are heading into a very interesting time in the future. I do not see massive, irreversible economic collapse. The vast majority of people on the inside in both groups - the Majestic and the Illuminati - are now well aware of this 2012 thing that's going to happen. They only see it as a cataclysm because when you're working from separation and control, some of the people that are on that path will probably experience pole shift. But you have this three way split.

Kerry: So what happens to the other two branches? Because you were talking about a three way split, and you've talked about the good side...

David: Right. The vast number of people, at this point (although it's changing) are stuck in what the Law of One called the miasma of indifference. What that means is, the average person on this planet has not chosen whether they are service to self or service to others, meaning they have not chosen whether they want to manipulate people or whether they want to love people. That's what it really boils down to.

Now in the secret orders, you have some very cynical people in there. You're born into this thing where you are abused from the time you're born. You have to go to these rituals at night. You're seeing these slicers and dicers, that's what they call them in the lower echelons; but the vast majority of the people in the Illuminati don't like what's happening and would get out if they could. They don't like it, but they're stuck because if you try to escape, they'll kill you.

You have to go to these meetings starting from 1:30 in the morning until about 4:00 in the morning. So you end up going to sleep with your clothes on, two times a week and you are indoctrinated with all the cult teachings, and they tell you that you are going to be this wonderful leader in the new order, and they want to have control over the earth because they inherited this ascension prophecy. They know it's coming. That's why it's on the dollar bill.

'Novus Ordo Seclorum"... New World Order. "Annuit Septis"... He has looked with favor on our beginnings...

The pyramid without the capstone is six sided. Okay, you have the four sides, the bottom and the top. That's six. What happens when you put the cap-stone on? How many sides do you get then? The top is eliminated. You only have five. One, two three, four, and the bottom is five. In pyramid numerology six means imperfection; evil, five means perfection and divinity.

So the cap stone returning to the pyramid represents the New World Order, the new age, which originally was not a bad thing.

So our insiders are now aware of this. People say, "why are they deficit spending, why are they running up the national debt so much, and why are they polluting the atmosphere and cutting down the rain forest and nuclear missiles and dah, dah, dah, dah? How can they be doing this? It's almost like they're not planning for the future. They don't think it's going to matter. Well, that's true. What does it matter if you pollute the earth? What does it matter if there is global warming? So, this is what starts to make sense out of all the madness.

Kerry: ...so that's two...

David: Right. I'm sorry, I didn't answer the question expediently.

Kerry: And so we have a third group? What happens to them?

David: The negative group graduates 4D negative. That's a very small number and that's the people who become the J-rods and the P-52s, P-45s, P-24s. Those are all your negative graduates. They stay with the earth, and experience pole shift. They experience cataclysm; some of them are underground, some of them are on the surface. The ones on the surface are the P-52s that go to Orion. The ones on the ground are the J-rods and P-45s.

Most people on earth pop into time/space, the one down here, and they recreate the earth exactly as it had been except that now, you're in fantasy land. You can levitate if you chose to, or you can see beams of light.

PART 3

David: You can't just crash the gate, because it can be very damaging. Your shadow-self is what you have to move through to get to the fruits of the higher self. I believe that everyone here at this time is awakening to their higher self, and their potential. And the idea of a singular messianic figure is very old world patriarchal thinking.

So you have the two primal forces in the universe, love and light. Love is fourth density light. Where wisdom is fifth density. The unity of love and light is the sixth density, the brow chakra. You reach a point in your cosmic evolution where God is not something "out there". You're saying, "Oh there it is, it's within". So how could you be a messiah on a planet? How could anybody be? Because that implies that it's somebody else.

We were building up to a point last time, right before we cut off the camera, and I wanted to finish that point. It is important for people who are watching it edited together. Its gonna be kind of a cliffhanger otherwise.

I was talking about how the DNA molecule, as per Dr. Peter Gariaev's information, acts as an antenna, and that it harnesses photons of light in an otherwise dark room. And all the light will spiral through the molecule.

This then lends itself to another Gariaev study he did, when he took a salamander embryo, and zapped it with a laser beam. Then was able to redirect the light from the salamander's embryo, into a frog embryo.

And in doing so, he was able to cause the frog embryo to completely metamorphize into a salamander. So the relevance to what we are talking about, in so far as we have this planetary climate change phenomenon, we have a great outside source of energy that seems to be coming into our solar system and causing changes that we haven't seen before. And these changes actually affect our DNA.

So in other words, when you are seeing the planets change and you are seeing magnetic fields getting larger, you are seeing the actual atmosphere of the planets becoming brighter. All these things are happening. We are also on the planets. Of course we're on the Earth, and so the changes are energetic and it affects the whole system.

Not just one part of the system, so we are part of that Earth system, so this is really kind of the smoking gun that suggests that species evolution is actually occurring, and that part of what this 2012 situation's really about.

There's a scientist from UC Berkeley, Dr. Robert Rhode, and he showed that the evolutionary record does not indicate Darwinian evolution, which occurs, at this gradual speed. You have these sudden moments in which new species appear on the Earth, and they occur in even cycles of time, which are actually 62 million years in length.

So what that appears to indicate is that there are domains of energy in the galaxy, that take a 62 million years to traverse. And when we hit a wave front, when we hit a new layer of this energy, it has an affect on the DNA of every organism on the planet, causing these discontinuous changes, similar with what you saw with the salamander, frog experiment.

Bill: Would you also say that this facilitates Lamarckian Evolution, the inherited acquired characteristics?

David: Yeah, in so far as it seems that the energy field that we're interacting with is itself a conscious source, and, given the fact that the field itself is conscious, events that cause great stress or pain, to an organism, are uploaded into the collective mind of that species' field, which Dr Rupert Sheldrake calls the "morphogenetic fields".

So then, what happens is there is an adaptive mutation that occurs, based on the needs of that particular species, and its environment. The core of what Sheldrake is coming out with, in my mind, is most easily seen with the Backster studies. Dr Cleve Backster.

Now last year we actually went down to San Diego and filmed Dr. Backster. He's a scientist who started out as a CIA polygraph expert, and he decided one day, "what would happen if I took my polygraph and hooked it up to the leaf of this plant?". Well, he was very surprised, because, unlike smooth, unchanging wavelengths, which he thought he would see from the plant, instead he ended up with a shifting dynamic wave, which was more indicative of what you would expect a human being to be like, with the exception that skin, kind of acts as a dampening agent to the electrical current. But the plant has a very active dynamic electrical current.

Well, then he said, "This plant is acting so much like a human being, what if I ran the plant through stress, similar to how you do a human on the lie detector?" The whole purpose of the lie detection is, you want to get this person into the moment, when you say, "Did you fire the shot who killed so and so?" And the person has a shock, and they're not happy, they're not enthusiastic about your question. So, so they end up saying, "no of course I didn't kill him", and then the graph goes crazy!

So he says, "How do I shock a plant"? He tried dipping one of the leaves in his coffee. That didn't work. He tried a variety of little things like that, when he got the idea in his mind, without actually even doing it, but he just got the idea, of going and taking a match, lighting the match, striking it, then holding it to one of the leaves and burning the leaf.

The plant had an enormous reaction, and in fact did not stop until after he had actually gone and done it, burnt the leaf, and then taken the matches out of the room again. Only once the threat was gone, and he was out of the room, did the plant finally calm down.

So here we are, literally 40 years later, after he discovered this, we're filming Dr. Backster. And he's not an actor, so if we didn't get the plant to have an authentic reaction in our film shoot, then, you know, we weren't gonna get him reacting the way that it should be.

So we had set up this scene, where there was supposed to be a kid in the classroom, who hears about Backster's effect, and gets excited, and wants to burn the plant, and prove it for himself. And we actually had a plant hooked up to the polygraph, and we have a graph of it and everything, and, in between takes, it was very tense on the set.

We're under a very tight time schedule, and there was a problem with this little camera that we had over the polygraph, that was supposed to be able to show us the needle's movement, but it wasn't working. Our director was getting really angry at the guy who was setting up the camera, 'cause it wasn't working. And I noticed that as the tension in the room got really extreme, from the camera problem, the plant was having a reaction.

I'm watching the needle, (makes sound effect) going like this (makes hand gestures), I'm like, Wow! You know, I knew it was real, but still when you see it yourself it's still kinda like the difference between somebody believing in UFOs, and somebody seeing a UFO land in your backyard. It was like, "okay, that's really happening". So now we have this situation where Backster is there, he's not reading lines, he's basically improvising, which created a lot of trouble in the editing room. And we needed to get the plant to react in a way that was authentic.

So I finally got this idea in my mind that I would, at the exact moment in the scene, where the kid gets up out of the chair and is gonna threaten to burn the plant, my part in that scene, is I'm supposed to stop him. So I put my hand on his chest and basically push him back. I said, "I'm just gonna conjure up the ugliest, darkest, most vile, heinous, horrible emotions that I could think of and just focus them all on that plant. And I didn't want to have it show on my face, because it wouldn't be appropriate for the shot. But I wanted to get, like, nervous and have my heart suddenly race.

So we did the shot. The kid gets up to light the plant on fire, and I just blasted this plant, this bolt of very nasty energy. The plant went crazy!

Backster's like, "Oh ho, we got a reaction there!" And that was so gratifying because it proved that this is real. Now the reason I'm telling you this story is because Backster proved this not just with plants, he proved it with bacteria, he proved it with single cells, he proved it with human cells. Dr. Brian O'Leary, NASA astronaut, actually gave him a skin sample from inside of his mouth, and they put it in a tiny little test tube with gold wires, and then sent O'Leary off to the airport. They synchronized watches and O'Leary would write down every time something stressful happened to him, like "Oh my God, I missed my turn on the thruway", or the freeway, or whatever. I guess this would be the freeway 'cause it's California. Thruway is an upstate New York thing.

So anyway, he, O'Leary, is writing down every time he has a stressful event. Well sure enough, here's his living cells, three hundred miles away in a lab, and every time he had a stressful event, his cells were showing a reaction. So then you have to ask yourself, okay, what if two people's cells come together and make a child. Like the parent-child psychic connection, right?

Then you say well, okay, is it only cells from your own body, or near to your own body? We actually know that it's not that way plants respond to other organisms dying. They don't just respond to threads of their own. You can get a plant to respond to the death of brine shrimp. That was one of Backster's famous experiments, where he randomly dumped brine shrimp, living brine shrimp, into boiling water, and it would kill them, and as long as nobody else was in the building, the plant would react to the death of the shrimp.

Kerry: So where are you going with it?

David: The fact is that, we are, when we're seeing evolution in these 62 million year periods, it's a function of the actual field of consciousness itself changing. In other words, biology is affected by the field, the way that we think is affected by the field, and how that we are heading towards 2012.

It's not so much that time is speeding up, where you're going to look at a clock and the hands are gonna move faster. In a Newtonian model, you have particles, sitting there in empty space, and they shouldn't have any reaction with each other. Yet, when we are in alignment, when we are aligned with the galactic center, so that if you're standing on the Earth, and the Earth is rotating, and your body is on the surface of the Earth and as the Earth spins, your position of the galactic center spins.

And if there's (pointing at the camera) the galactic center, as I turn to face it, my psychic ability increases so much. It's like we're this river of energy coming from the center of the galaxy. So, what that ultimately suggest is, that our position in the galaxy does have an effect on our cognitive function, on our thinking. It also gives us strong support to this idea that evolution could be created as a result of a positioned galaxy, as to why you have these 62 million year cycles.

In order to really understand how this science works, you really have to think in terms of fractals. And what fractal means is it's actually a term derived from taking an imaginary number which is the square root of negative one, and chunking it through very simple operation, a little equation, and then you take the product of that and you run it through again, and you take the product and run it through again.

So if you've ever seen, like a paisley shirt, and it has these kinda flowery patterns, that's what fractal pattern basically looks like. Now, the thing about a fractal is you can zoom in on it, and the farther in you go, you keep seeing the same pattern appearing again.

Bill: Like the Mandelbrot Set?

David: Yes, like the Mandelbrot Set, exactly.

Now the crop formations have had fractal patterns. Actually, there was a very interesting case where a team of crop circle researchers were saying, "wouldn't it be interesting if the Mandelbrot Set showed up in the crops", and the next day it was there. So that was obviously pretty amazing.

The fractal principle is important because you have an energy system within an atom, which in some degree, is similar to the energy system within the solar system, which to some degree is similar to the energy system within the galaxy, and even the galaxies all have a orbit around a universal center as well, that has been determined by a researcher from Russia, Dr. A.N. Mishin.

So, in the solar system, there is a cycle that at first was believed to only affect the Earth. It's a show wobbling of the Earth's axis, called precession. It takes 26,000 years to complete, roughly speaking. So you get the idea now how this can be like a rhythm, like a pulse, okay?

Well that's what happens, there's this pulsation at the center of every torus, and that pulsation then ripples out through the medium, because this whole torus is like a fluid, it's like a medium.

So the pulses are going out from the center, they reflect off the outside edge of the sphere, okay? Then they start going back towards the center. So they're going out and coming back. So you have this area in the center, which is doing this (making up and down hand motions), right? There you have waves going out, waves reflecting off the edge, waves coming back to the center. So this is what's happening.

Now the waves that go out, and the waves that come back are interfering with each other, they're colliding with each other. When they do they form walls, spherical walls of energy, where there's a higher concentration, because you've got the wave that's going, (makes sound effect noise), and they collide together and form this wall. Now as more energy gets into this system, the central oscillator starts going a little bit faster, or maybe the rhythm doesn't change but the power of the waves changes.

So the actual size of the whole system gets larger, and this is what's actually happening. You have, it's basically a counter rotating energy force. The way that you have one, this actually goes back to the ancient Vedic scriptures from India. They talk about Purusha and Prakriti, the two primeval forces, which actually are geometries. Purusha is a icosahedron, and Prakriti is a dodecahedron, which are these basic geometries, Platonic Solids as they're called.

So one basically stays stationary, while the other one, moves, and they counter-rotate inside of each other. So you now have to imagine two spheres with the donut whole in the same space, and as they collide, they counter-rotate, and they form one as it rotates, forms a wave that's going up like this (makes clockwise circle motion with hands), the other one rotates, it forms a wave that goes down like this (makes counter-clockwise circle motion with hands).

The up-going wave, and the down-going wave collide in the center, form this sphere, that pressure creates the pulsation, the pulsation creates ripples that go out, ripples come back, they interfere with each other, they create these walls of energy, and as the system evolves, the walls of energy expand in size. As those walls collide with our solar system, they charge up the sun, they charge up the planets.

That's what we're seeing in my work with Hoagland. It affects the whole solar system. It changes our DNA. It expands our consciousness, and it ultimately changes the frequency of physical matter, leading to a complete transformation effect, similar to the Bermuda Triangle, except that it's now the whole planet. So you have people basically disappearing and this ties back in with the Christian rapture idea, and all the other systems of thought that have the same thing.

Kerry: One of the questions I asked was whether this synthesis, in your understanding, is known and fully understood and utilized by The Powers That Be... whoever you consider The Powers That Be to be?

David: (laughs) Well, I certainly don't want to come across, as a know-it-all, or arrogant or whatever. What I can say is, that this is not my information that I'm sharing with you, as much as it is information that I was shown, through, what you could call remote viewing or telepathy.

And it was only because I had scientific contacts and a background to be able to understand what I was actually being shown and then find the research for it. The Black Ops community has a fairly good knowledge of physics, but it does not have a complete knowledge of physics, and it does not really fully understand what it's seeing. It has long been a surprise to me, the lack of knowledge on behalf of individual whistleblowers within that community.

I think part of that is, we were saying off camera, that severe compartmentalization makes it so that, information known to one guy at a desk at the CIA, is not known to the next guy at the next desk. And I actually met with this retired CIA officer who confirmed that to me.

Bill: And it's the same with the scientist guy in Livermore doesn't know what the guy in Los Alamos is doing, and sometimes, even when they're told to share information, that they don't even do that. (David nods head in agreement)

David: So what you end up having, like in quantum mechanics, there are so many competing models, to try to explain the basics of quantum mechanics, super string theory, eleven dimensions, 26 dimensions, 9 dimensions, Kaluza-Klein theory, which is a five dimensional universe, and the mathematics are so complex, that you can't learn all of it. You can only learn one very specialized area.

Well, I am really a fan of Einstein's comments about the difference between what he called the "theory of wood" and the "theory of marble". And the theory of wood, if you can imagine, somebody taking a bunch of wooden boards, and nailing them together to make a sculpture. It's rickety and it teeters and totters a lot. Where as, a really good theory, is carved out of marble. It's just, it's already there and you just have to take away that that you don't need. Einstein said that a really good theory is self-evident. It's simple, it's easy, you can explain it, and it works.

We're now dealing with unified science, in which we see the same properties at the quantum level, as we see at the galactic level, the micro and the macro, and in mainstream science, quantum physics, and relativity theory, which is Einstein's physics, do not interrelate with each other. There's a very big disconnect there.

Unify those together, and I believe that what I'm describing to you is a unified theory. Part of that is how we see the same effects in the quantum field, showing up in the structures of these super cluster galaxies, where they're all based on the octahedron shape. Like an egg carton, called an "egg carton universe".

That's Battaner and Florido, these two scientists in Spain who did that research. So I don't want to get too far off track into physics things, because a lot of people start, you know, you're up on stage and you see heads going like this (puts head back and closes eyes). (laughter)

PART 4

David: During the time that I was having these extensive discussions with Antonio about the 26 boxes of the Illuminati which he told me were the good guys, and I believed him at first, I was also - January 1996 - I started to read the "Law of One" series, the Ra materials. The source calls itself Ra which is the name that they took on in Egypt. They also in the Bible show up as the Cherubeum or the Carabeem, these angels that protect the tree of life. And Dan Burisch appears to have had an encounter with the Cherubeum which I believe is an encounter with Ra.

And I said in our previous taping how there were two different occasions when someone
appeared to have been visited by some type of energy or entity during a time that was
auspiciously timed when I had asked for that to happen. One was when this woman had a reading and it said to her remember the giant, cathedral and I said, yeah I was in a giant cathedral in my dream about you and she started freaking out.

And the other one was with my brother where I was meditating and I kinda started to fall asleep, and I see a UFO or what appears to be a UFO. And I said now all I need to see is a ball of light with an intelligent message, cause that's the other thing that I always read about in these UFO books. And then my brother has that happen to him... very powerful experience for him.

So there has been these times when it seems like there's a direct connection. I'm reading this "Law of One" stuff in 1996 and it's explaining three years of very hard core research I was doing, and it's like everything that I thought was an original thought was already in this material.

However, the "Law of One" series is also cryptic. It's hard to understand. That's why we have a study guide on my website, Divine Cosmos.com is the website.

So, as a result, I kinda had to extrapolate further from what framework was put in the "Law of One". And this went through multiple... I mean I have been documenting my dreams for almost 15 years in a row... every single morning I write them down.

I generate about a hundred pages every month or more. It's an unbroken transcript from 1992 onward, so there's a lot of material in there. And a lot of this stuff would come down to the point of like using Google as sort of like divination trying to find information on the internet by knowing what you're looking for, but being open to finding surprises.

It's interesting too, 'cause Edgar Cayce claimed that one of his past lives was Pythagoras and the Illuminati/masons cite Pythagoras as one of their main influences, because he basically reconstituted the Atlantean knowledge that had been dispersed throughout the world.

He traveled to India; he traveled to Tibet; he traveled all around and basically got initiated in all these different secret societies, and gathered their information and put it together. And there was a whole Pythagorean secret school that he devised and made a kind of unified version of this.

Of course more recently you have Francis Bacon, who's sort of the modern father of Freemasonry and so forth, who kind of put all this material together again. And of course the secret story with Bacon is that he was the illegitimate son of queen Elizabeth and was not allowed to be part of the royalty because his father was not the king.

So he got banished by his mother when he found out what was going on, and he felt very betrayed. That could partially explain why the Masonic movement at the top level is very anti-monarchical and ended up creating its own power system outside conventional royalty and inheritance of power.

So anyway, yeah, it's not an easy subject for me to talk about my own channeling. It's a lot easier for me to talk about science because it's something I can prove; it's something I can talk about. But what I can tell you is that if you do the work on yourself, if you do spiritual work, you will get to a point where you can start to experience the field of consciousness as a direct personal thing and this is best done in deep meditation.

A lot of people are looking for some kind of placebo, some kind of like take acid or you know, have the Hemi-sync tapes from the Monroe Institute, or the glasses you wear when you are asleep and they shine color in your eyes. There's any number of gadgets and gizmos out there and people want to short circuit the process and gain immediate access to your higher self, well it doesn't really work that way.

You can't just crash the gate, because it can be very damaging. Your shadow self is what you have to move through to get to the fruits of your higher self. The shadow is what guards the gate. If you haven't done your shadow work, you're not going to be able to see this information yourself.

As a result of that, and I shared some of this with you guys privately, there's some really awful stuff that's happened to me that I have never publicized which I all credit as part of my initiation. And the purpose of it was really to make me a lot stronger spiritually, so that I would not be susceptible to the temptations of ego that come with being a public figure.

I've had a lot of people who want to lay on these projections to me, messianic type of stuff because, you know, Edgar Cayce supposedly was this Atlantean priest, Ra-Ta, who was like the big kahuna back then. He became Ra who became the equivalent of Jesus to the Egyptians.

And I've had a lot of people over the years come to lay their hang-ups on me, but the problem with that is first of all, I don't believe it. I believe that everyone here at this time is awakening to their higher self and their potential. And the idea of a singular messianic figure is very old world, patriarchal thinking.

It's completely implausible to, I mean even if it were possible, it doesn't make sense, because we're moving into a world that is non-hierarchical; we're moving into a world that is based more on society, community. Centralized power structures are the old way of doing things and that's what is showing so many flaws now, so...

Kerry: So, to get back to the Ra material, in a certain sense what you seem to be verging on is an explanation of what it's like to move from the third dimension into the fourth. Maybe you can tie some of the transitions that... or insights that you've gained about that to where the Earth is theoretically may be going.

David: I'm glad you brought that up. That's really a great entree to some of the deeper material. Now you have to understand that the level of treatment that I've given of this "Law of One" philosophy so far is extremely superficial. And that really is not a lack of my ability as it is a lack of time and the depth and complexity of this material.

We are as a planet moving into what they call fourth density. It's a density of what they call unconditional love on the positive side, and on the negative side it's love of self. So, you can have 4D positive and 4D negative. Some people are going 4D negative like some of these top Illuminati people.

You wouldn't really do that, because when you get there, if you're a new graduate, you're at the bottom of the totem pole. Everybody else is over you. And it's like being in the hell-raising movies, as I've said before. Whereas the positive 4D, which is what the Earth is becoming... It's only in 3D is what we have now that you can have openly negative and openly positive entities live on the same planet.

As soon as you get above 3D, negative entities cannot live on an already positive planet or a 5D positive planet. So, 4D is like the heart chakra, OK. Well, people say what could be wrong with unconditional love.

There's a very big problem with unconditional love and that is that's it not informed by wisdom which is the 5th chakra. Unconditional love without wisdom is where a lot of people are right now and they're having a lot of problems in marriages, in relationships, in family in family interrelations, with our government structure, because these people with these very open hearts can be very easily manipulated and taken advantage of by others. They don't have the strength of character to be able to just say no... to be able to say this is my life, my space, this is my body. You can't have it.

And that's one of the things that is very difficult about being a public figure in spirituality, is that people see you as a public figure as their family, as their... almost like their property, so as people meet me then they just want to take me out to dinner and they want to have these long conversations and tell me their life story... when you're in a room with 500 people who are all trying to do that at the same time, which I've been in many circumstances... it is not pleasant.

So the Earth is moving into a state that is more advanced. The "Law of One" says that it is a hundred times more harmonious than living on the Earth right now. That's hard to imagine, but it's still only 4D. When you get up to 5D, that's when you learn all of the scientific stuff, the wisdom which is honor, actually, the honor principle is very important.

Honor is the principle in which you are willing to sacrifice yourself for a greater cause, and in which you have a sense of duty, a sense of responsibility, whereas a 4D person with a very open heart... you may have a very open heart, but you also may say, Oh I just don't want to do that because it's not fun. I only want to do things that I enjoy. The principle of honor is the principle that says, I have a responsibility to do this. I might not like it, but it's my job; it's my responsibility. I'm gonna make sure that it get's done.

So you have the two primal forces in the Universe: love and light. Love is 4th density. Light or wisdom is 5th density. The unity of love and light is 6th density... the brow chakra. That's the level that your higher self is at. That's the level that Ra is coming from. At that level you have compassion and wisdom. Compassion and wisdom... unity... oneness.

And then after that you have the 7th density which is the level of what they call the guardians. These are the entities that actually advise groups like Ra. They watch over us when we go through this process when our planet shifts from one dimension to another and make sure that nobody falls off to the wayside, so that everybody gets to where they need to go. So, we are under enormous protection.

The guardians, what they do basically is they reach a point where they say the looking backward is finished, and what that means is they have reviewed their whole soul's history, all the past lives they've ever had, and gain all the knowledge there is to know. They've become fully enlightened. At that point they gain what is called spiritual mass.

This is all "Law of One" philosophy now, which becomes like gravity, and you actually begin collapsing into oneness which means... by the time you are at 7th density level, it's almost like you are a star... like a whole star is your being now. Even the whole galaxy potentially is your being.

And these entities eventually collide back into oneness... galaxies actually implode on themselves and that not just something you are seeing out in space. As a star or galaxy collapsing, it's actually an entity that has finished its curriculum of evolution and is regaining its unity with the oneness.

After 7th density you go into the mystery of what is called intelligent infinity which is oneness ... the true oneness... in which you have no memory, no identity, no sense of past, present or future... simply allness and foreverness. And that freaks a lot of people out. They say I don't want to ever lose my personality. I don't want to lose anything.

It's not losing anything. It's gaining. Gaining back who you really are, because you're not separate from this Universe. That's the really important message of the "Law of One"... everybody suffers and goes through their drug addictions and shopaholics... shopaholic, rageaholic, driving too fast... all of these addictive behaviors... all of these mind-melds that we get into with negative energy... are all a function of feeling separated from God or the Creator as if we'd been abandoned, left alone, isolated here.

You reach a point in your cosmic evolution where God is not something out there you're saying: "Oh, there it is." It's within, so how could you be a Messiah on a planet? How could anybody be, because that implies that it's somebody else? Right? It's not somebody else. It's you. You are the Christ consciousness.

And the second coming of Christ as Cayce described it... Edgar Cayce... is something that's happening in a lot of people, so it would be inappropriate and extreme for me to claim any type of uniqueness or special ability or rank that's higher than other people, so we are moving out of that hierarchical thing that is definitely part of what this 4th density consciousness is about.

Kerry: OK, so to bring you back to today and where we are here on this planet at this time, that's a journey some of us are going through as individuals all the time, on the surface, some people have come from other densities who have already graduated to certain degrees of that, and then the Earth itself is going through that, OK, as an entity. If you bring it back to here and now and you are dealing with sort of the opposites that are existing on the planet here... the good, the evil, the... and you got ETs that are coming across as positive and might have a negative intention...

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: You have ETs that are coming across as negative and may actually facilitate a positive reaction...

David: In certain circumstances, yes.

Kerry: Then you've got ETs that are coming from the fifth, you know, the love... the unity of love and wisdom, and some of these are visible to us... 'cause in a sense there's also kind of a piercing of the veil happening.

David: First of all, you raised one interesting point that I want to comment on further, and that is only beings in 4th and 5th density require UFOs to travel. When you get up to the 6th density level, you are now the equivalent of a whole planet of people like us that's fused into one mind.

And that becomes such a powerful entity, that it will just think itself anywhere in the Universe it wants to go, and it's there. It does not require a ship to travel. UFOs are generally something these ETs are creating with their own consciousness. They manifest it based on blueprints that they can download.

The internet is a very apt metaphor of what shared consciousness is like. We are moving into. We are moving into the 4th density on Earth. We will have superhero powers. By comparison to where we are now, you will be able to levitate yourself. You'll be able to instantly manifest objects with your thought. You'll be able to travel through time... travel through space. You'll be able to provide for instantaneous healing and there is telepathic communication, so there are no secrets any more. Everyone's consciousness is unified. You can't hide anything from other people. That's a very profound discontinuous shift from where we are now.

Kerry: That leads into where ETs are at this moment, because they do have, at least, telepathic abilities, most of them...

David: Right.

Kerry: ...that are far advanced of most Earthlings, you know.

David: Absolutely. Absolutely correct.

Kerry: So that leaves us at a disadvantage, depending on what their agendas are. So, maybe you could talk about that.

David: We are experiencing the battle of Armageddon on this planet. It is not something that occurs in the future. The "Law of One" philosophy is just one philosophy which is based on what we call ageless wisdom or esoteric wisdom, and I'm not trying to say that this material is the only material that is any good.

However, it is a fact to my understanding that most channeling you see out there on the internet now, or in books for that matter, most of it is highly distorted, and the reason why is that there's a battle of Armageddon going on. It is not something that occurs right at the end of the age in the last few years before 2012.

It's actually been occurring for thousands of years, and it's a battle between good ETs and bad ETs. Its one way to say it even though good and bad is a relatively subjective term. When we say good, we mean entities that are service to others oriented, meaning that their purpose is to help, to love, create a unifying of people together in love.

Entities on the service to self path believe that they are helping - believe that they are creating spiritual evolution, but they do it by interfering with you, by making you uncomfortable... making you unhappy... colliding with your free will. And they will try to invade a planet and conquer a planet, but they can't do that unless they have the desire of those planets' inhabitants to be conquered.

That's a very important point. They have to have the free will mandate. People have to say: "Yes, we want to be enslaved. We want to be taken over." That's why they can't just sweep into a planet and invade and take over.

Now, the beings that are above 5th density, like in 6th density, you have the unifying of service to self and service to others. Negative and positive are the same. They come together, and some people get really freaked out when we say that, but it's true. There is a level at which the Creator uses the negative path and the positive path to promote evolution.

One of the really great tenets of "Law of One" philosophy is what happened at the dawn of creation. There was only the positive path. Every being knew that it was one with God, knew that it was one with the Creator. There was no sense of separation. And as a result, no one was growing, no one was evolving. It was very stale, very boring. People were spending thousands and thousands and thousands of years in 3rd density which is where we are now, without ever graduating, because nobody needed to help each other and that's the whole point.

Changes that we're seeing now on the Earth, all the upheavals with the honey bee collapse, with the SARS virus, and with the Earth changes, and the solar system changes, and the government conspiracies, and corruption, and the fossil fuels dwindling, and the gas prices going up, and the economy might collapse, and all these things that are happening are designed to sort of make us uncomfortable, so that we'd draw together, and that we find a way to connect with each other, and become more at peace as a society. And we start seeing how the path of separation and of pulling each other apart doesn't work anymore, and that we have to come together as a unified consciousness.

So when you're dealing with evolution in the Universe, it was very early in our creation that one of the galaxies... galaxies represent the primordial Creators... they basically set up a whole system of evolution of 22 archetypes... 22 basic experiences that every person on every planet will go through in that galaxy. And wherever you are now, there is a veil between the conscious mind and the super conscious mind, meaning that you can consciously believe that God has abandoned you... that you have no connection to the Universe.

That is the seed of the negative path. The seed of the negative path is separation. The pain of feeling that God doesn't exist or that God has abandoned you leads to you feeling like no one else has any value. When you start awakening to these laws of the Cosmos... the radiant mind energy that's all over the Cosmos. You then feel that you have become a God where none existed and therefore everyone else is like insects compared to where you are, and that in order to enlighten them, you have to enslave them.

That's the basis of the negative path. There are entities who believe this way who are higher evolved than humans... higher evolved than the people on the planet at this time. And, they are trying to come to this planet, trying to take over; however, those 7th density beings I spoke of before, known as the guardians, they're job is to create this wall of protection around the Earth, which is called the quarantine, and that basically ensures that they will never be able to invade.

Now, because we as a planet are not uniformly positive, we have the blending of positive and negative influence. That means the average person may, on the one hand say I love you to their spouse, and then go and cheat on them with somebody else, OK. A lot of people on this planet think of themselves as we are basically good people... we are basically good at heart.

In the Diary of Ann Frank, that famous line she says at the end... here she's been tortured by the Nazis, right, and she says: "But I do believe that we're all really good at heart." Well, that's actually the problem... that there are people who are doing really negative things who believe they are basically good at heart, and they're not dealing with the disconnect between the good part and the part that's hurting people.

So you may have a guy who says: "Well, I love my wife, and I support my family," but yet he's going out to strip bars or he's cheating on her with somebody else. When mass murderers and murderers in general have been interviewed when they're on death row, they don't say: "I'm this terrible killer." They almost invariably will have justified the murder for whatever reason, even if it's people that they didn't know and they had no connection to. They will come up with some reason why what they did was a good thing.

So, we as a planet are in a situation where we're doing negative things, but we're not aware that they're negative, and that's a major problem that we have. So, as a result, we end up forcing ourselves to have these negative greetings, as they're called.

We have these entities around us that could provide a perfect protection from negative entities interfering with our planet. If we had the mandate of society to be only positive, but we don't. We're creating negative energy in our own lives like by lying to people. That's a great example.

If you can look somebody in the eye and know that you're not telling them the truth, but you're doing it basically for your own benefit, then in some small way you are sending some energy out there that will allow a negative reading to happen in your own life which means you might have bad karma. You might suddenly like hit your head on the door and you're bleeding and ahh, you know... or, it could be something that happens to the whole planet.

This is why we have corrupt government. This is why we have environmental degradation. This is why we have Earth changes. The Earth changes are actually very much like the primitive societies said: the Earth is a living organism.

If we were getting along harmoniously as a people, we would not be having Earthquakes; we would not be having hurricanes. None of that stuff would be happening. It's a projection of our disharmony. And the great way that I saw that happen was during the Israel-Lebanon war last year. The tensions of everybody's mind got really, really tweaked out on the planet, and then there was a global heat wave.

Here in L.A. It was horrible. You guys remember that? It was like... I was lying there in bed, because I did not have air conditioning in my apartment in Santa Monica, and I was dying from the heat. And it was all over the place. It was Europe. It was Asia. It was North America, South America.

Well, it was because everybody was freaked out that the Israel-Lebanon war could create World War III... Armageddon in the Middle East. There was this huge fear in the planet, and that stops the energy from flowing through the planet as it should. It gets bottled up and creates this unusable heat which causes us to have these Earth changes.

So, these guardians... these 7th dimensional beings... again, create this bullet proof shield around the Earth, but because we invite incursion by our negativity, there are certain random windows that will be opened and that is mandated.

Nobody knows when it will happen until it happens, but when they open, you get what's called a UFO wave or a saucer wave. Most of the UFOs that you see in the sky are negative entities. Most of the UFOs are negative. There are some that are positive, but the majority of them are the negative side.

Doesn't mean that they're going to hurt you necessarily. You will not be affected by these UFOs unless you've invited it in your own life by basically being overtly negative, so that's another good incentive to, you know, stay on the positive path and try to do the right thing for other people and try to be positive, supporting, uplifting, loving.

Kerry: So how do you make sense of the fact that you've got people going through abduction scenarios like Jim Sparks who you may not be familiar with personally, who we heard speak, and he's written a book called The Keepers, and who was conscious during his experiences or contact experiences, however you want to frame it? And basically, he's being taught how to make the Earth a better place. They're being shown... he says there are group abductions that he's seen; that they're being educated by these ETs to basically save the Earth.

David: OK, that's a good question. This gets into... we're in one of those gray areas that is very strange, and that is that the positive side like to call themselves the Confederation. And it's basically a group of 53 some odd civilizations that have all come together and are basically acting as sort of a celestial government for our little sector of the galaxy.

Ra, the group that I've worked with, and it's in the "Law of One" series, is just one of the entities in the Confederation... one of many... of 53. Now they basically oversee what they call the management and transfer of planetary populations. In a situation like what you described, there are entities in the Confederation, 4D and 5D, that use UFOs to travel and they will sometimes bring people on board the ship and give them positive spiritual teaching. So, that is sometimes what happens.

Now, you will have situations in which people have been contacted and they have what appears to be kind of like an abduction. The main difference between a negative abduction and a positive contact is (in) the negative abduction you will have the feeling like you are a lab animal... like you're basically not cared for, not respected... you're in terror, you're in fear. You'll be probed and prodded... scoop marks on your body and so forth. A positive contact will be something where you feel inspired, uplifted, and you're given a message of hope and peace for this planet.

It is a very important thing to point out that many people start out by being contacted by good guys, Confederation entities, and then end up not following the teachings that they're given. And when that happens, if you start diverting from the teachings that you're given, for example, many channelers start to think they're the Messiah... very, very common.

You think... I'm talking to the extraterrestrials and I'm getting all these Cosmic teachings coming through me and therefore I am here to save humanity from it's evil ways. I am going to lead us through the Ascension and duhduhduhduh... as soon as you start thinking like that, it's a mandate that the negative side is going to start interfering with what you're getting... mandate, you can't avoid it.

Kerry: And in fact this happened to Cayce, did it not?

David: Cayce had negative interfering with his channeling, because he was getting angry at the people who were heckling him about his ability. Because he was not following this principle of brotherly love... love thy neighbors as thyself which is a basic Christ teaching.

That allowed a negative entity that called itself Halaliel ... spelled h-a-l-a-l-i-e-l... to start giving him messages, and those were the messages that everybody equates with the prophecy of California sinking into the ocean, pole shifts, tidal waves and all this stuff. It has been said emphatically in the channeling from the Confederation which has history going back to Edgar Cayce. There's three or four sources I've identified from the 1950s that said this stuff.

There's sources in the 60s like the Jane Roberts material... the Seth books... the "Law of One" series in the 80s... and then my material since then... Carla's Material... she's continued channeling since then... and a few other sources... maybe Dr. Norma Milanovich's first book, We the Arcturians, etc., in which there's a positive message that says - you're not going to experience pole shift, you're not going to experience terrifying cataclysms.

This 2012 thing is about spiritual growth, right? If you're trying to grow spiritually as a person, why? If you believe in reincarnation, why would you be spiritually growing? Are you just going to keep reincarnating... re-doing this over and over again?

No. You get to a certain point where you will have learned everything you can learn from being on Earth, and you're ready to go and do something else. You're ready to go to a higher place where you don't have to suffer so much. You've probably noticed in this video... my hands... they were worse in the last taping, but they're still not looking very good. It's not because I got spray paint on myself. This is scarring from poison ivy that I had. I'm not immune from having karma. I'm not immune from having really bad things happen to me, because sometimes I don't figure out what I should be doing. What's the best use of my energy, my time?

Kerry: Well, isn't it true, also, that the "Law of One" group had a sort of bad demise, in a sense that there were a lot of negative things going back and forth. One of the people committed suicide... is that right?

David: That's correct. That's correct... this is not something that we usually discuss, because it's kind of upsetting, but the man who was asking the questions in the "Law of One" series actually did commit suicide.

Kerry: So, I mean, but what it speaks to, you know, is the sense that you're saying if somebody becomes evolved enough to follow sort of a good path, but begins on some level to let in negativity and whatever, they go through sort of... you know... I guess a night of the soul... they become tested on a higher level in which the tests are tougher. And if they don't pass, this is when you get... you know...

David: Car accidents...

Kerry: All this fallout.

David: Serious injuries to the body, physical death in some cases, financial... complete financial loss, some people end up having to flee the country, because if you get in trouble with the government and the IRS audits them and they end up completely broke... bankruptcy.

It's very, very common that you see people involved in channeling have their lives collapse because when you start giving a message to humanity, you have to live by it very strongly. And if you don't do that, then there's very serious repercussions. The questioner of the "Law of One" series, Don Elkins, kind of dwelled a little too frequently on the negative side, because there were negative entities attacking their group, trying to kill Carla, the one who was actually doing the channeling. It's very difficult to be involved in this work. In the process of doing our film, several of the people involved in the film have had very serious health problems that almost killed them, actually.

Kerry: And this is the film, "The Convergence" film that you're working on?

David: Convergence, uh huh...

Kerry: So maybe you can explain, just in a short way, what that film's about and what you're involved in.

David: Well, the purpose of the film is to primarily express to people in an entertaining way that our minds are interconnected with each other. It's a very rudimentary, but very important principle that you have to be able to absorb to understand how we're interconnected. The conventional person has had some kind of ESP at some point in their life, but they're not really sure if it's real.

Once you understand that your mind is like a radio, tuned into other people's minds. It's not separate from other people's minds, and you think a thought, and it radiates out into your environment and affects the people around you. That's a very powerful principle.

So, the desire of our film is to bring this knowledge out to the public, without going into UFOs and without going into any of the esoteric stuff I've been talking about with you guys. But, I have put together a really elegant, fascinating body of scientific data showing how the mind is a conscious energy field, and we've arranged it into a trilogy of films. The one we're doing now is the first of that trilogy.

It started out as just being a documentary, and then we decided that we were going to do a dramatic film, and we're now on our third re-write of the dramatic script ... the screenplay of that film. We're working with a man who is a very high-ranking member of a film school here in L.A., and he's brought a lot of dynamic and unique elements to our screenplay which we're very excited about.

So you can kind of think of it as "Da Vinci Code" meets "The Secret"... is kind of where we are going, or "What the Bleep Do We Know." You're not going to have talking heads or interviews in the film. It's going to be totally filmic. It's going to be a script with a plot, and characters, and drama, and so forth, but the science is going to come out in the course of the arch of these characters. There's not a whole lot more i can say about it, because frankly we are in re-writes and we don't even know where the script is going to go. It could change altogether, so...

Kerry: Right. But, so this circles back around to the fact that these... some people involved in the making of this film are being sort of attached by a certain degree of negativity.

David: Yep...

Kerry: And this is really fascinating. Maybe you could talk about what people could do who find themselves on a good path and yet they get this escalation of the negative side in which they need to protect themselves.

David: This is really an important point. A lot of people who are gonna be seeing this tape are going to be experiencing negative greeting in their own lives. The more involved you try to get in healing and evolving this planet, the more negative greeting you're going to experience.

There are basically two ways that you can solve negative greeting. The first way is to abandon your quest. If you're really getting butt-kicked, and you're trying to do something for the planet, you can basically drop out of the race, get a normal job, marry, have a child, become a "Muggle". Again if you want to use the Harry Potter term, and kind of get out of the game... and the negative greetings will stop. They will leave you alone. You won't have to go through all this hell.

The other way is to be really, really diligent. If you want to be in service to the planet, it takes a life commitment. You can't go in and then pull out easily. One of the thing's that's important is the principle of honor, again. If you make a solid commitment that this is what you're gonna do... that you're gonna be a spiritual teacher... you're gonna be somebody who's gonna try to evolve consciousness ... you can't like sort of be into it one week and then not into it the next week.

You have to stay consistent. It's a spiritual path. So, it also is very important that you live by your principles. I have heard many, many stories - even back from the early and mid-90s - of people who went on, like seminars with channelers. And the channeler is giving one message to their followers in these groups, but then acting very nasty towards their people like on the tour bus. "Don't talk to me" ... you know... "Get away from me"... and there's even one case in which there was a female where she was experiencing horrible karma on this trip... burning herself, falling. People were realizing that this was because she was not living by her own teachings.

She completely wouldn't accept that, and the guy who I knew who was talking about this was one of the members of the trip, and was actually heckling her about it, which is not a nice thing to do either. In order to avoid negative greeting, the most important thing I can tell you is to choose your battles carefully; don't get involved in something that you don't really have the time or the desire to complete. No one is requiring you to become some type of world figure - world savior.

The most important thing that will keep you from negative greeting is preserving consistent harmony in your lives with yourself and with other people that are close to you. Negative greeting will happen to you when you lose the harmony with the people that you're closest to... when you start arguing with them... bickering with them, attacking them... when you start getting selfish... when you start getting jealous... when you start feeling greed... when you start saying "I want to do this basically, so I can make money, because I want to spend money on myself."

You earn money to serve. You don't earn money to gratify yourself to go off to Vegas and play the slot machines or to have a prostitute or whatever. Earn money so that you can recirculate it on behalf of the planet. And that's why in "the "Law of One"" contact the group was told over and over again... guard the harmony in your group very carefully. Don't let yourselves get into arguments with each other. Don't let yourselves fight with each other.

It's all about the attitude. It's about maintaining your frequency. And the reason why this happened to me is because I didn't maintain my frequency. I let certain things really get me upset... angry, and my hands got scorched. So, I'm not above it. It can happen to anybody, and it's a very essential principle.

Kerry: Right, I think that that's really great for people to hear, because it's clear that you're on this kind of a path, regardless of where you are on it, and I'm... we're not going to make any suppositions about that. But, what's important is that people begin to develop tools to protect themselves as they do journey, and there are going to be a lot of people watching this that are on that same journey, as we are.

David: Yeah, it's really... people love to try to make it complicated and they love to say wow, you got to do your violet meditation in the violet flame with a white egg of light around you. All that stuff is technique. You can do that if you want to. Trying to stay in a meditative state is important, but really, honestly, it's all about there's an absolute law in the Universe and it's free will.

If you're on the negative path, you don't care about free will, but you're constantly having karma come back to you because you infringe on it. On the positive path... the definition of the positive path is that you're not infringing on free will. If somebody asks you for your help, you give them your help, but you don't offer service when it's not requested.

That's another thing... like fundamentalist groups, for example... whether it's Christian or any other religion... fundamentalist Muslim, fundamentalist Buddhist, fundamentalist Christian. If you're going out there and proselytizing people saying: "you're not thinking right. You're not believing the way you should. We have the answer. We need to tell you what's going on." Guaranteed you're on the negative path. You cannot be on the positive path and telling people how to think and what to do with themselves, period.

If somebody wants your help, that's great. So you put out a website; you put out videos like this. If somebody wants to watch it, they can. But if somebody's been watching this video for four hours or however long it is that we've been going, and they're sitting here laughing at me and they're saying David is a jerk and David is an egomaniac, well I'm not asking you to watch the video. I'm not telling you this is how you should think.

If fundamentalist Christianity works for you and that's your spiritual path, then go for it. Do it. If you're a Buddhist and you wanna chant Namyohorengekyo all day long, that's great, fine. I'm not going to tell you how to believe or what to think. That's the negative path.

The positive path honors free will. If you want to avoid negative greeting, you preserve the free will principle very diligently. You don't infringe on other people's free will. You attempt to promote harmony and love in a positive attitude as much as possible, and the more you can do that, it guarantees that you are not going to have negative greeting. That's why most of the time, negative greetings don't happen to me. They happen to people around me, because what they will do... they will find the weakness... find the chink in your armor.

Somebody could have a relatively normal life if they're not trying to help the planet. They get involved with me... they become a business partner and all of a sudden they're having all kinds of disasters happen to them... health problems, even to the point of almost killing them. And it's not like I'm giving them a voodoo hex or anything. It's because if they start infringing on what we're doing, or they try to steer me in a more negative or self-serving direction, they're accountable for that, much more than they would have been before. In fact...

Kerry: Well, it's also that they're also moving to a certain level. They're saying, OK, I'm up to this. I'm able to step up to another level, and therefore they're actually inviting the challenges, and they're higher challenges. So, in a sense, it requires greater strength on their part.

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: so it's actually on a certain level, independent of you, that the people around you may be... they're stepping up is what they're doing... in their own way...

David: That's true... that's true.

Kerry: As you are stepping up and we see it all around ourselves that this kind of thing will happen. So, it's very important though, also, just to backtrack a tiny bit, in which conflict also has healing parts to it, so that to avoid conflict or to bury it is also not the answer.

David: Absolutely. That's a wonderful point. This gets into the concept of the protocol of avoiding negative greeting. When you're being negatively greeted, you have an entity that's coming to you saying, "I want to enslave you." There's a way to handle that, OK. You basically want to love the attacker. That's the part that nobody can get their hands around.

Like with the government, for example. If you're out there writing these articles saying "the Bush administration is cata... you know, catastrophically ignorant and these buffoons are... these jackoffs are... if you're sending hate to them you're guaranteeing that you're perpetuating the cycle of hate.

Hate only leads to hate. So you see the negative entity as being a person like you... part of the oneness that's confused, because it believes in separation, it believes in pain, and control, and manipulating people.

So you send love to the entity, because you recognize that there's a part of yourself that's like that. There's a part of yourself that is manipulative and controlling and dominant. But, you also draw boundaries. Boundaries is the key. Boundaries is where you say "I love you uncon... I love you but there are conditions, because I'm not going to let you do this. I'm not going to let you infringe on my space."

If every spiritual conundrum you found yourself in had a very simple answer, enlightenment would be simple. All you'd have to do is have a book, right, like my book for example. This was the German version of it actually. We didn't show that before. It's been published in two countries now, and you say, "Well, OK, page 303 says here that, oh OK, when somebody's telling you that I'm a jerk. All I have to do is say ‘screw off'... OK, ‘screw off'... " and, boom, your problem is solved. It's not that simple. The real way that enlightenment works is that there's always these gray areas where you have to use your wisdom and come up with something on your own.

Kerry: Right, and this gets back to love and wisdom.

David: Right.

Kerry: So, we actually want to move up the chakras, we want to unite love and wisdom, and... and move forward from there. Thank you very much for sharing with us.

David: It's my pleasure.

Kerry: And maybe we can do some more of this, because...

David: Happy to...

Kerry: You seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I want to ask you quickly, why do you have this woman next to you... this statue of a woman which is a very interesting choice, and..and maybe she has meaning for you, so I just thought it might be nice to know what it was.

David: Well, I chose to use the symbolism of Sofia, the divine feminine. The higher self is approached as a feminine source. It's the color of blue, so that the color of the shirt that I'm wearing is intended to represent that.

Now, ideally she should have been on my right shoulder, but the room was not adequately situated in such a way that we could do that. But the Illuminati would have this be Isis and say it's the feminine principle of Lucifer. That's not why I'm doing it.

First of all, it was just kind of a cool prop to have in the shot... something to look at. But more importantly, the feminine is the way in which divine energy comes across. We are moving out of a patriarchal society and we are moving into a feminine. So the feminine energy is that which is coming in at this time, and so this is kind of like a reminder to me. This is where energy's coming in from... the left hand side. It goes out through the right.

So energy is coming in from the feminine. I just wanted to sort of hopefully bring in some warmth, some nurturance, because I can at times be really masculine in my energy and really left-brained scientific, and hopefully this will remind me to stay on the feminine side and keep my heart open.

Kerry: OK.

David: But, it's been really wonderful to have this opportunity to speak with you, and again, my website is www.divinecosmos.com, and I thank you guys for participating in this. All that's required to be able to go through this Ascension is slightly 50% more service to others than service to self. You can still have a lot of flaws. You don't have to be perfect. Everybody gets to win in this game. It's very simple. Just try to help others as much as you can and that's it.